[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was less stressful it seemed like, and only two people or one person maybe at that point were deselected. So it wasn't like the mid.

[Assistant] Had you been given an assignment? Did you know?

[User] We didn't know where, that didn't happen until we got in country. We just knew that we're going to Kenya and we're going to teach in a secondary school.

[Assistant] And what subject were you going to be teaching?

[User] I was obviously thinking I was going to be involved in some kind of social studies as I had a master's in teaching social studies.

[Assistant] But that didn't match up.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We didn't know where, that didn't happen until we got in country. We just knew that we're going to Kenya and we're going to teach in a secondary school.

[Assistant] And what subject were you going to be teaching?

[User] I was obviously thinking I was going to be involved in some kind of social studies as I had a master's in teaching social studies.

[Assistant] But that didn't match up.

[User] No.

[Assistant] You had home leave?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was obviously thinking I was going to be involved in some kind of social studies as I had a master's in teaching social studies.

[Assistant] But that didn't match up.

[User] No.

[Assistant] You had home leave?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Five days, six days?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] You had home leave?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Five days, six days?

[User] Probably a whole week, as I remember maybe it was the 20th. Then because we landed in Nairobi on the 31st. And so, and we had a 12 hour layover in Madrid. SO we flew from New York to Madrid, to Athens. And then we had an hour refueling and that.

[Assistant] It was a charter flight?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Five days, six days?

[User] Probably a whole week, as I remember maybe it was the 20th. Then because we landed in Nairobi on the 31st. And so, and we had a 12 hour layover in Madrid. SO we flew from New York to Madrid, to Athens. And then we had an hour refueling and that.

[Assistant] It was a charter flight?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And the seats were full with volunteers?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Probably a whole week, as I remember maybe it was the 20th. Then because we landed in Nairobi on the 31st. And so, and we had a 12 hour layover in Madrid. SO we flew from New York to Madrid, to Athens. And then we had an hour refueling and that.

[Assistant] It was a charter flight?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And the seats were full with volunteers?

[User] Yes, the 120 of us plus the land development people going to Kenya.

[Assistant] [inaudible] When you went home, any second thoughts?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And the seats were full with volunteers?

[User] Yes, the 120 of us plus the land development people going to Kenya.

[Assistant] [inaudible] When you went home, any second thoughts?

[User] Oh, not for me. I mean, I was wound up. I was ready to go.

[Assistant] Did your family give you a big send off?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, the 120 of us plus the land development people going to Kenya.

[Assistant] [inaudible] When you went home, any second thoughts?

[User] Oh, not for me. I mean, I was wound up. I was ready to go.

[Assistant] Did your family give you a big send off?

[User] Well, my family certainly gave me a tremendous send off.

[Assistant] Were you in the local paper?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, my family certainly gave me a tremendous send off.

[Assistant] Were you in the local paper?

[User] I was. Three Rivers is the city of 7,000, but I had my picture in the paper, selected for Kenya.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] Oh, it was a big deal.

[Assistant] So now you arrived in the airport.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was. Three Rivers is the city of 7,000, but I had my picture in the paper, selected for Kenya.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] Oh, it was a big deal.

[Assistant] So now you arrived in the airport.

[User] Of course, my dad and my mother drove me to Detroit and people got off the plane, and that's when I saw [inaudible]. And she was from Anchorage and so she was on the flight with me going from Detroit to New York. And then, of course, we all assembled in the airport in New York City to catch our one flight. And as I say, we had 12 hours in Madrid. Of course we're tired, but I tried to make every bit of that 12 hours. Go to the Prado.

[Assistant] So you were on travel.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, it was a big deal.

[Assistant] So now you arrived in the airport.

[User] Of course, my dad and my mother drove me to Detroit and people got off the plane, and that's when I saw [inaudible]. And she was from Anchorage and so she was on the flight with me going from Detroit to New York. And then, of course, we all assembled in the airport in New York City to catch our one flight. And as I say, we had 12 hours in Madrid. Of course we're tired, but I tried to make every bit of that 12 hours. Go to the Prado.

[Assistant] So you were on travel.

[User] I was a traveler. And then we refueled in Athens. So I have been to Greece for an hour. But then, then as we were flying, the sun was coming up and I could look down and I could see where the White Nile and the Blue Nile came together. And we're flying over to Khartoum. And then I don't know how many hours later the landing in Nairobi.

[Assistant] Was there a reception when you landed?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was a traveler. And then we refueled in Athens. So I have been to Greece for an hour. But then, then as we were flying, the sun was coming up and I could look down and I could see where the White Nile and the Blue Nile came together. And we're flying over to Khartoum. And then I don't know how many hours later the landing in Nairobi.

[Assistant] Was there a reception when you landed?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Governors?

[User] Yes. And of course, the planned settlement people spoke very good Swahili so they could sing the national anthem much better than we could. [tape break]

[Assistant] [inaudible] Do you recall at any point was there a swearing in ceremony? [inaudible]


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Governors?

[User] Yes. And of course, the planned settlement people spoke very good Swahili so they could sing the national anthem much better than we could. [tape break]

[Assistant] [inaudible] Do you recall at any point was there a swearing in ceremony? [inaudible]

[User] I don't remember that. It's not to say it didn't happen.

[Assistant] Tell me about your initial reaction to being in Kenya.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. And of course, the planned settlement people spoke very good Swahili so they could sing the national anthem much better than we could. [tape break]

[Assistant] [inaudible] Do you recall at any point was there a swearing in ceremony? [inaudible]

[User] I don't remember that. It's not to say it didn't happen.

[Assistant] Tell me about your initial reaction to being in Kenya.

[User] We were assigned to a hotel. I got sick for some reason, either because I hadn't been sleeping. I read a book a friend of mine, Neil Lampert, who was one of my professors at Western Michigan, gave me a book. Departing. And I read that book in its entirety on this flight. So I was really wound up. So probably from the lack of sleep, my body finally caved in and had got a tremendous cold. Finally, Dr. Campbell came up and gave me a shot or something because I was kind of throwing up.

[Assistant] So the first couple of days [inaudible].


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't remember that. It's not to say it didn't happen.

[Assistant] Tell me about your initial reaction to being in Kenya.

[User] We were assigned to a hotel. I got sick for some reason, either because I hadn't been sleeping. I read a book a friend of mine, Neil Lampert, who was one of my professors at Western Michigan, gave me a book. Departing. And I read that book in its entirety on this flight. So I was really wound up. So probably from the lack of sleep, my body finally caved in and had got a tremendous cold. Finally, Dr. Campbell came up and gave me a shot or something because I was kind of throwing up.

[Assistant] So the first couple of days [inaudible].

[User] And it was at that time that the group met Tom Mboya and really, really high powered people, who I missed. I missed that part of it.

[Assistant] When you got to Nairobi as a group [inaudible] other two continue on?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We were assigned to a hotel. I got sick for some reason, either because I hadn't been sleeping. I read a book a friend of mine, Neil Lampert, who was one of my professors at Western Michigan, gave me a book. Departing. And I read that book in its entirety on this flight. So I was really wound up. So probably from the lack of sleep, my body finally caved in and had got a tremendous cold. Finally, Dr. Campbell came up and gave me a shot or something because I was kind of throwing up.

[Assistant] So the first couple of days [inaudible].

[User] And it was at that time that the group met Tom Mboya and really, really high powered people, who I missed. I missed that part of it.

[Assistant] When you got to Nairobi as a group [inaudible] other two continue on?

[User] Yes, yes, yes. The Kenyan group stayed in Nairobi and the Uganda group, I don't know how they got to Uganda. They, we split.

[Assistant] So all of a sudden, now the groups is down to about 40, 50 people?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And it was at that time that the group met Tom Mboya and really, really high powered people, who I missed. I missed that part of it.

[Assistant] When you got to Nairobi as a group [inaudible] other two continue on?

[User] Yes, yes, yes. The Kenyan group stayed in Nairobi and the Uganda group, I don't know how they got to Uganda. They, we split.

[Assistant] So all of a sudden, now the groups is down to about 40, 50 people?

[User] Probably 35. 40 originally. Probably someone of those people [inaudible].

[Assistant] What was your initial reaction then after that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, yes, yes. The Kenyan group stayed in Nairobi and the Uganda group, I don't know how they got to Uganda. They, we split.

[Assistant] So all of a sudden, now the groups is down to about 40, 50 people?

[User] Probably 35. 40 originally. Probably someone of those people [inaudible].

[Assistant] What was your initial reaction then after that?

[User] But Nairobi certainly was not bush. Major city. So, so that, I mean, the shock wasn't like if you landed in [inaudible]. It was a major city and hearing the different languages, but most people spoke, everyone we encountered spoke English.

[Assistant] So it was kind of an easy transition?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Probably 35. 40 originally. Probably someone of those people [inaudible].

[Assistant] What was your initial reaction then after that?

[User] But Nairobi certainly was not bush. Major city. So, so that, I mean, the shock wasn't like if you landed in [inaudible]. It was a major city and hearing the different languages, but most people spoke, everyone we encountered spoke English.

[Assistant] So it was kind of an easy transition?

[User] Yes, it was. Yeah. And then people were. Met you. Met the Peace Corps Director Tom Kunde. And then the assignments were given. And so then we have an allotment of money to go buy bedding, pots, and whatever, whatever we need.

[Assistant] Did you try your Swahili at all the first few?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But Nairobi certainly was not bush. Major city. So, so that, I mean, the shock wasn't like if you landed in [inaudible]. It was a major city and hearing the different languages, but most people spoke, everyone we encountered spoke English.

[Assistant] So it was kind of an easy transition?

[User] Yes, it was. Yeah. And then people were. Met you. Met the Peace Corps Director Tom Kunde. And then the assignments were given. And so then we have an allotment of money to go buy bedding, pots, and whatever, whatever we need.

[Assistant] Did you try your Swahili at all the first few?

[User] Some. But I have to admit, I was not terribly fluent. Didn't push it.

[Assistant] Talk about your time. At any point do you recall [inaudible]?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, it was. Yeah. And then people were. Met you. Met the Peace Corps Director Tom Kunde. And then the assignments were given. And so then we have an allotment of money to go buy bedding, pots, and whatever, whatever we need.

[Assistant] Did you try your Swahili at all the first few?

[User] Some. But I have to admit, I was not terribly fluent. Didn't push it.

[Assistant] Talk about your time. At any point do you recall [inaudible]?

[User] I'm sure that that happened and I didn't have any preference. I just said, send me, again like my application, send me wherever you want. I'm open to that.

[Assistant] So within the group, I mean, there wasn't any sort of [inaudible].


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] At least I didn't have that sense. I mean, I didn't. I really liked everybody and I thought I could work with anybody. And I was assigned with Steve Poland to work in a Harambee school.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] Well, what was it? Freedom. And it was one of the new schools just being opened. And so I thought this is going to be a neat experience, Steve and I got along well. And then when we got on the train to go to Kisumu, because the Harambee school was south of Kisumu. But when I got off the train, I had, overnight, been reassigned by the Ministry of Education and ended up going to Maseno, which was about 25 miles north of Kisumu. So Steve and I got separated at that point in time.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] No, that happened just as we were there and assignments were read out. And Breyfogle, you've been reassigned to.

[Assistant] This was before?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, what was it? Freedom. And it was one of the new schools just being opened. And so I thought this is going to be a neat experience, Steve and I got along well. And then when we got on the train to go to Kisumu, because the Harambee school was south of Kisumu. But when I got off the train, I had, overnight, been reassigned by the Ministry of Education and ended up going to Maseno, which was about 25 miles north of Kisumu. So Steve and I got separated at that point in time.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] No, that happened just as we were there and assignments were read out. And Breyfogle, you've been reassigned to.

[Assistant] This was before?

[User] Yes, we were in Kisumu at the train depot at that time.

[Assistant] And somebody came?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And said, you're going to Maseno.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] From the Ministry of Education.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] Well, I was, I had to readjust. And plus the fact Steve and I bought stuff together. And so we had to kind of look at what, what we could separate. So he took the pots and pans because I figured I could take the, I had my blanket and sheets and those things because that stuff you, of course, had your own. That was easy.

[Assistant] So how did you get to Maseno?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I was, I had to readjust. And plus the fact Steve and I bought stuff together. And so we had to kind of look at what, what we could separate. So he took the pots and pans because I figured I could take the, I had my blanket and sheets and those things because that stuff you, of course, had your own. That was easy.

[Assistant] So how did you get to Maseno?

[User] Somebody from Maseno, one of the teachers, one of the English teachers, who had a car, was asked to come down and pick me up.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So now you're going off [inaudible].


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Somebody from Maseno, one of the teachers, one of the English teachers, who had a car, was asked to come down and pick me up.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So now you're going off [inaudible].

[User] Yes, I do. And that was. The Brit, who was the geography teacher, who I ended up living with during this time, was very welcoming. They made me feel very accepted. Just looking at the scenery, it was beautiful. Your first real glimpse of the African countryside, or at least for me. I thought it was beautiful.

[Assistant] There was a good road there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I do. And that was. The Brit, who was the geography teacher, who I ended up living with during this time, was very welcoming. They made me feel very accepted. Just looking at the scenery, it was beautiful. Your first real glimpse of the African countryside, or at least for me. I thought it was beautiful.

[Assistant] There was a good road there?

[User] I guess it was.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] No, at that point in time, it was, as I remember, it was tarmac. But part of it was relatively smooth ride.

[Assistant] Did the Brit try to fill you in on the school and what to expect?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, at that point in time, it was, as I remember, it was tarmac. But part of it was relatively smooth ride.

[Assistant] Did the Brit try to fill you in on the school and what to expect?

[User] Just in general terms. This is a school founded in 1907, well-established. The students are good students. You know, they're the cream of the crop of the country.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] No, it was not.

[Assistant] Do you have any idea why [inaudible]?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Just in general terms. This is a school founded in 1907, well-established. The students are good students. You know, they're the cream of the crop of the country.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] No, it was not.

[Assistant] Do you have any idea why [inaudible]?

[User] You know, I could, I could say probably because I had experience and also a masters degree.

[Assistant] But no one ever [inaudible]? So you arrived at the school.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, it was not.

[Assistant] Do you have any idea why [inaudible]?

[User] You know, I could, I could say probably because I had experience and also a masters degree.

[Assistant] But no one ever [inaudible]? So you arrived at the school.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] What were your living arrangements?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. I was assigned to live with the geography teacher at least for the interim. Uh, the house that I lived in that first two weeks, because later I was going to be assigned to another house. Certainly more than adequate, but a much older house than some of the newer houses. In fact, they were constructing three new houses on the other side, of the western side of the compound. But that was a little house with two bedrooms. So I had my own bedroom. Living room, dining room, little kitchen.

[Assistant] Running water?

[User] Running water.

[Assistant] Electricity?

[User] Electricity at night. It was a generator.

[Assistant] A steward or servant?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Running water.

[Assistant] Electricity?

[User] Electricity at night. It was a generator.

[Assistant] A steward or servant?

[User] This person happened to have a, uh, houseboy is the term, which is very colonial.

[Assistant] Were you beginning to feel [inaudible]?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Electricity at night. It was a generator.

[Assistant] A steward or servant?

[User] This person happened to have a, uh, houseboy is the term, which is very colonial.

[Assistant] Were you beginning to feel [inaudible]?

[User] Well, that was a struggle because I was really looking at the mud hut impoverishment of being a person living on my own, not being dependent on other people. But I have to admit that then over a period of time, it took me about a month to get used to the idea of having, quote, a houseboy. We realized really how important this was for that person. I mean, it's an interesting part of the Kenyan economy. So this person then offered me $12 month to do your laundry, mow your yard, clean your house. And that was his livelihood.

[Assistant] Do you remember [inaudible]?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, but there was.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] Right. I mean, the expectation I thought was.

[Assistant] Your own.

[User] Your own, yeah.

[Assistant] I mean, your own expectation [inaudible].


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Your own, yeah.

[Assistant] I mean, your own expectation [inaudible].

[User] Yes, we would take care of ourselves.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] It was not bad at all. And certainly when we got the lay of the land and realized what was really expected, for the economic reasons and because of time. We were just horrendously busy once the students came that we didn't have time to mow the yard. I had, I had snakes in my yard.

[Assistant] Describe the school. This was not a well-off school.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think there are 60 or 70 even.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] We had, we had forms 1 through 6, yes.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] The headmaster, of course, was there for many years. His father happened to have been the bishop of Uganda. So he was maybe born in England, but had lived much of his life in East Africa. And his wife, Cicely, was the daughter of a bishop in India. I mean, so in other words, she was a colonial child as well.

[Assistant] And I don't know [inaudible]?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We had, we had forms 1 through 6, yes.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] The headmaster, of course, was there for many years. His father happened to have been the bishop of Uganda. So he was maybe born in England, but had lived much of his life in East Africa. And his wife, Cicely, was the daughter of a bishop in India. I mean, so in other words, she was a colonial child as well.

[Assistant] And I don't know [inaudible]?

[User] Yeah. But none of my British colleagues opted for that. They maintained the British passport.

[Assistant] But how many of the British [inaudible]?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The headmaster, of course, was there for many years. His father happened to have been the bishop of Uganda. So he was maybe born in England, but had lived much of his life in East Africa. And his wife, Cicely, was the daughter of a bishop in India. I mean, so in other words, she was a colonial child as well.

[Assistant] And I don't know [inaudible]?

[User] Yeah. But none of my British colleagues opted for that. They maintained the British passport.

[Assistant] But how many of the British [inaudible]?

[User] I think all were British.

[Assistant] Okay, so they come out just to teach.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think all were British.

[Assistant] Okay, so they come out just to teach.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] We had one missionary probably. A young wife, two children. And the others were more my age, I mean, my age being 29, I was. And so the physics teacher, the chemistry teacher, and the geography teacher were about my age.

[Assistant] Was this a church run school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] We had one missionary probably. A young wife, two children. And the others were more my age, I mean, my age being 29, I was. And so the physics teacher, the chemistry teacher, and the geography teacher were about my age.

[Assistant] Was this a church run school?

[User] It was an Anglican school, British church, Church of England. In fact, in Maseno there's a cathedral. The chapel that we had on campus, I realize now, since I'm now an Episcopalian, sometimes we pray for the Diocese of the Maseno.

[Assistant] And but you still got the support in that system.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, it was, it was a government, by that time it truly was, the government took control of it. But it certainly, we taught religion. There was a Cambridge exam, the students took an exam like in November of their fourth year and their sixth year. And those exams were bundled up and sent to Cambridge.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] The Kenyan staff were teacher trained. In other words, they had gone through a certain level of education.

[Assistant] Not university?

[User] Not university. We did have later on have a graduate. And these, the African teachers basically taught forms 1 and 2, the lower forms, math, whatever the subject matter. And the Brits taught the higher levels. But later on when there wasn't a graduate, he was teaching.

[Assistant] Was the school [inaudible]?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The Kenyan staff were teacher trained. In other words, they had gone through a certain level of education.

[Assistant] Not university?

[User] Not university. We did have later on have a graduate. And these, the African teachers basically taught forms 1 and 2, the lower forms, math, whatever the subject matter. And the Brits taught the higher levels. But later on when there wasn't a graduate, he was teaching.

[Assistant] Was the school [inaudible]?

[User] It was initially and then when the physics teacher married an American in my second year, she then joined the staff.

[Assistant] What about the student body?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not university. We did have later on have a graduate. And these, the African teachers basically taught forms 1 and 2, the lower forms, math, whatever the subject matter. And the Brits taught the higher levels. But later on when there wasn't a graduate, he was teaching.

[Assistant] Was the school [inaudible]?

[User] It was initially and then when the physics teacher married an American in my second year, she then joined the staff.

[Assistant] What about the student body?

[User] The student body was all male.

[Assistant] It was a boarding school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was initially and then when the physics teacher married an American in my second year, she then joined the staff.

[Assistant] What about the student body?

[User] The student body was all male.

[Assistant] It was a boarding school?

[User] Yes, it was. There were 10 dormitories.

[Assistant] Now, well, let's talk about [inaudible].


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The student body was all male.

[Assistant] It was a boarding school?

[User] Yes, it was. There were 10 dormitories.

[Assistant] Now, well, let's talk about [inaudible].

[User] The headmaster, Bertram Bower, a delightful person. He later retired to [inaudible] came to an. After I went and got back and got married, I spent an evening with Bertram [inaudible]. But anyway, Bertram assigned me forms 1 math, religion. And form 3 history. So I was out of my head in the math and religion because I certainly was not steeped in the religion. And the math, I could do the basic math, but I was just barely a day ahead of the students. But then, because of the detached retina from one of the English teachers, this was the Hungarian born American who had an Australian wife. And then when he had the detached retina and had to go back to New York and get that taken care of, his wife taught his classes. But then she left to go to New York. And then that the big shift, that I got all forms 3 and 4 history and English, forms 5 [inaudible].

[Assistant] But eventually [inaudible].


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, it was. There were 10 dormitories.

[Assistant] Now, well, let's talk about [inaudible].

[User] The headmaster, Bertram Bower, a delightful person. He later retired to [inaudible] came to an. After I went and got back and got married, I spent an evening with Bertram [inaudible]. But anyway, Bertram assigned me forms 1 math, religion. And form 3 history. So I was out of my head in the math and religion because I certainly was not steeped in the religion. And the math, I could do the basic math, but I was just barely a day ahead of the students. But then, because of the detached retina from one of the English teachers, this was the Hungarian born American who had an Australian wife. And then when he had the detached retina and had to go back to New York and get that taken care of, his wife taught his classes. But then she left to go to New York. And then that the big shift, that I got all forms 3 and 4 history and English, forms 5 [inaudible].

[Assistant] But eventually [inaudible].

[User] Well, I had a syllabus but that meant that I really had to do a lot of boning up to even be ahead of the students.

[Assistant] Same things with the math?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The headmaster, Bertram Bower, a delightful person. He later retired to [inaudible] came to an. After I went and got back and got married, I spent an evening with Bertram [inaudible]. But anyway, Bertram assigned me forms 1 math, religion. And form 3 history. So I was out of my head in the math and religion because I certainly was not steeped in the religion. And the math, I could do the basic math, but I was just barely a day ahead of the students. But then, because of the detached retina from one of the English teachers, this was the Hungarian born American who had an Australian wife. And then when he had the detached retina and had to go back to New York and get that taken care of, his wife taught his classes. But then she left to go to New York. And then that the big shift, that I got all forms 3 and 4 history and English, forms 5 [inaudible].

[Assistant] But eventually [inaudible].

[User] Well, I had a syllabus but that meant that I really had to do a lot of boning up to even be ahead of the students.

[Assistant] Same things with the math?

[User] Same thing with the math that I had.

[Assistant] Did you feel [inaudible]?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I had a syllabus but that meant that I really had to do a lot of boning up to even be ahead of the students.

[Assistant] Same things with the math?

[User] Same thing with the math that I had.

[Assistant] Did you feel [inaudible]?

[User] I mean, I had had high school algebra and geometry, advanced algebra and solid geometry, and that was the extent of my math.

[Assistant] Given the fact that this is such a [inaudible]?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Same thing with the math that I had.

[Assistant] Did you feel [inaudible]?

[User] I mean, I had had high school algebra and geometry, advanced algebra and solid geometry, and that was the extent of my math.

[Assistant] Given the fact that this is such a [inaudible]?

[User] I had those feelings. But overall, I thought. I mean, even though I thought I was out of depth in the math and religious studies, that shifted probably within six weeks. Yeah, the shift was not even a full semester. But it was during this time the results came out from the Cambridge exams from the year before. And it was the worst in the school system. And the students got very upset and went on strike.

[Assistant] When was this?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I had those feelings. But overall, I thought. I mean, even though I thought I was out of depth in the math and religious studies, that shifted probably within six weeks. Yeah, the shift was not even a full semester. But it was during this time the results came out from the Cambridge exams from the year before. And it was the worst in the school system. And the students got very upset and went on strike.

[Assistant] When was this?

[User] It was in my first semester. And the students were on strike and not willing to participate in doing their garden work.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] We haven't even gotten that far yet. We had a meeting with the principal. The headmaster got permission from the Ministry of Education to send the students home. So the students were sent home for about a week. But this school strike became a national issue since Maseno was a very prominent school. Vice President Oginga Odinga and financial minister Tom Mboya had gone to school there. So Parliament was talking about this strike in Maseno and blaming it on the Peace Corps for not being prepared to teach. And of course, I really was not prepared to teach some of the subjects I had been teaching.

[Assistant] Were these, they must have been politically motivated attacks?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was in my first semester. And the students were on strike and not willing to participate in doing their garden work.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] We haven't even gotten that far yet. We had a meeting with the principal. The headmaster got permission from the Ministry of Education to send the students home. So the students were sent home for about a week. But this school strike became a national issue since Maseno was a very prominent school. Vice President Oginga Odinga and financial minister Tom Mboya had gone to school there. So Parliament was talking about this strike in Maseno and blaming it on the Peace Corps for not being prepared to teach. And of course, I really was not prepared to teach some of the subjects I had been teaching.

[Assistant] Were these, they must have been politically motivated attacks?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So there was some political division [inaudible]?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We haven't even gotten that far yet. We had a meeting with the principal. The headmaster got permission from the Ministry of Education to send the students home. So the students were sent home for about a week. But this school strike became a national issue since Maseno was a very prominent school. Vice President Oginga Odinga and financial minister Tom Mboya had gone to school there. So Parliament was talking about this strike in Maseno and blaming it on the Peace Corps for not being prepared to teach. And of course, I really was not prepared to teach some of the subjects I had been teaching.

[Assistant] Were these, they must have been politically motivated attacks?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So there was some political division [inaudible]?

[User] Of course there was. If you read Time magazine, if you had read Time magazine, Oginga Odinga, of course, was kind of considered pro-communist. He was a Luo, a member of the Luo tribe. Two thirds of our students were Luos. And so there might have been that. Certainly the students were truly upset with the results.

[Assistant] I mean, [inaudible].


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So there was some political division [inaudible]?

[User] Of course there was. If you read Time magazine, if you had read Time magazine, Oginga Odinga, of course, was kind of considered pro-communist. He was a Luo, a member of the Luo tribe. Two thirds of our students were Luos. And so there might have been that. Certainly the students were truly upset with the results.

[Assistant] I mean, [inaudible].

[User] I mean, I'm assuming there were some student leaders. I wasn't.

[Assistant] So you a very short time [inaudible].


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Of course there was. If you read Time magazine, if you had read Time magazine, Oginga Odinga, of course, was kind of considered pro-communist. He was a Luo, a member of the Luo tribe. Two thirds of our students were Luos. And so there might have been that. Certainly the students were truly upset with the results.

[Assistant] I mean, [inaudible].

[User] I mean, I'm assuming there were some student leaders. I wasn't.

[Assistant] So you a very short time [inaudible].

[User] Well, it gave me time to prepare. It helped me get caught up.

[Assistant] During this period, is that when your schedule changed?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I mean, I'm assuming there were some student leaders. I wasn't.

[Assistant] So you a very short time [inaudible].

[User] Well, it gave me time to prepare. It helped me get caught up.

[Assistant] During this period, is that when your schedule changed?

[User] My schedule had changed before that.

[Assistant] Okay, so now you're history.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] My schedule had changed before that.

[Assistant] Okay, so now you're history.

[User] Right, which I felt far more comfortable with.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] Yes, I was. Or at least, we're going to sit the exam the years after.

[Assistant] [inaudible] you'll be out of here before [inaudible].


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right, which I felt far more comfortable with.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] Yes, I was. Or at least, we're going to sit the exam the years after.

[Assistant] [inaudible] you'll be out of here before [inaudible].

[User] That's true.

[Assistant] Did you feel [inaudible]?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That's true.

[Assistant] Did you feel [inaudible]?

[User] Well, certainly. In other words, the students made it very clear to me that I was there to teach them English or history. And the history, of course, is crazy. It was British Empire and Commonwealth history.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] Well, they were very, very clear about it. You're here to teach us. We need to take this exam. And our lives, our future hinges on how we do on this exam.

[Assistant] I mean, did they say that to you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, certainly. In other words, the students made it very clear to me that I was there to teach them English or history. And the history, of course, is crazy. It was British Empire and Commonwealth history.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] Well, they were very, very clear about it. You're here to teach us. We need to take this exam. And our lives, our future hinges on how we do on this exam.

[Assistant] I mean, did they say that to you?

[User] Yes. No, that was very clear. Yes.

[Assistant] How does, uh, Kenyan English is obviously a little bit.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, they were very, very clear about it. You're here to teach us. We need to take this exam. And our lives, our future hinges on how we do on this exam.

[Assistant] I mean, did they say that to you?

[User] Yes. No, that was very clear. Yes.

[Assistant] How does, uh, Kenyan English is obviously a little bit.

[User] Kind of the King's English.

[Assistant] Was that an adjustment?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. No, that was very clear. Yes.

[Assistant] How does, uh, Kenyan English is obviously a little bit.

[User] Kind of the King's English.

[Assistant] Was that an adjustment?

[User] The joke was, as I got settled in, was the status symbol was to get an American accent rather than a British accent. So the Brits would tease me. And African students weren't the ones that really said this.

[Assistant] Well, did any of your students [inaudible]?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Kind of the King's English.

[Assistant] Was that an adjustment?

[User] The joke was, as I got settled in, was the status symbol was to get an American accent rather than a British accent. So the Brits would tease me. And African students weren't the ones that really said this.

[Assistant] Well, did any of your students [inaudible]?

[User] Well, they. No. But no, they, they wanted to be up to speed. And when we're teaching some of the literature, of course, a lot of it was British literature like Dickens, Orwell. But anyway, if there happened to have been an American author, of course they could see the slight difference in the language.

[Assistant] So the strike is over [inaudible].


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The joke was, as I got settled in, was the status symbol was to get an American accent rather than a British accent. So the Brits would tease me. And African students weren't the ones that really said this.

[Assistant] Well, did any of your students [inaudible]?

[User] Well, they. No. But no, they, they wanted to be up to speed. And when we're teaching some of the literature, of course, a lot of it was British literature like Dickens, Orwell. But anyway, if there happened to have been an American author, of course they could see the slight difference in the language.

[Assistant] So the strike is over [inaudible].

[User] The strike took place probably two thirds of the way through my first semester. And so I finished that first semester and then I had a month off. And, well, in Kenya, the schools had three months off. You'd go to school like from January, mid-January to April. And have mid-April to mid-May off. In school from mid-May to mid-August. Off mid-August to mid-September. Teaching from mid- September to, say, right up to Christmas or 20th. And then have that off until mid-January.

[Assistant] Okay, so [inaudible].


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, they. No. But no, they, they wanted to be up to speed. And when we're teaching some of the literature, of course, a lot of it was British literature like Dickens, Orwell. But anyway, if there happened to have been an American author, of course they could see the slight difference in the language.

[Assistant] So the strike is over [inaudible].

[User] The strike took place probably two thirds of the way through my first semester. And so I finished that first semester and then I had a month off. And, well, in Kenya, the schools had three months off. You'd go to school like from January, mid-January to April. And have mid-April to mid-May off. In school from mid-May to mid-August. Off mid-August to mid-September. Teaching from mid- September to, say, right up to Christmas or 20th. And then have that off until mid-January.

[Assistant] Okay, so [inaudible].

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] What was your sense of the interaction with the professional [inaudible]?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The strike took place probably two thirds of the way through my first semester. And so I finished that first semester and then I had a month off. And, well, in Kenya, the schools had three months off. You'd go to school like from January, mid-January to April. And have mid-April to mid-May off. In school from mid-May to mid-August. Off mid-August to mid-September. Teaching from mid- September to, say, right up to Christmas or 20th. And then have that off until mid-January.

[Assistant] Okay, so [inaudible].

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] What was your sense of the interaction with the professional [inaudible]?

[User] There certainly was a camaraderie. But it wasn't the same camaraderie that I had with Americans. It still was, I don't like the word colonial, but there certainly was that angle that the British were superior and better educated. I mean, the truth is there was racism.

[Assistant] So where did you fit in [inaudible]?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There certainly was a camaraderie. But it wasn't the same camaraderie that I had with Americans. It still was, I don't like the word colonial, but there certainly was that angle that the British were superior and better educated. I mean, the truth is there was racism.

[Assistant] So where did you fit in [inaudible]?

[User] Oh, absolutely. I mean, I didn't differentiate. But the African staff also were married and had families, which made it different socially from me than with my British friends who were single who could.

[Assistant] So [inaudible].

[User] Actually, most of the socialization was like in the teachers' lounge at coffee break. Like 10:00 to 10:30 in the morning or whatever the times were. And that's where the socialization was, because then once people went back to their homes, they had other obligations too.

[Assistant] Do you recall if any of the [inaudible]?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, absolutely. I mean, I didn't differentiate. But the African staff also were married and had families, which made it different socially from me than with my British friends who were single who could.

[Assistant] So [inaudible].

[User] Actually, most of the socialization was like in the teachers' lounge at coffee break. Like 10:00 to 10:30 in the morning or whatever the times were. And that's where the socialization was, because then once people went back to their homes, they had other obligations too.

[Assistant] Do you recall if any of the [inaudible]?

[User] Oh, no, no. We would have dinner exchanges and I would be invited to their homes. I had a problem because the fact that I, with three other British, although I later ended up having a home of my own, I ate with three other British. And so for me then to invite an African family was kind of problematic.

[Assistant] So you didn't do it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Actually, most of the socialization was like in the teachers' lounge at coffee break. Like 10:00 to 10:30 in the morning or whatever the times were. And that's where the socialization was, because then once people went back to their homes, they had other obligations too.

[Assistant] Do you recall if any of the [inaudible]?

[User] Oh, no, no. We would have dinner exchanges and I would be invited to their homes. I had a problem because the fact that I, with three other British, although I later ended up having a home of my own, I ate with three other British. And so for me then to invite an African family was kind of problematic.

[Assistant] So you didn't do it?

[User] I didn't do it. I mean, I did do it with a couple of people, but not, not with all the staff.

[Assistant] So were there instances where the three Brits, you [inaudible]?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I didn't do it. I mean, I did do it with a couple of people, but not, not with all the staff.

[Assistant] So were there instances where the three Brits, you [inaudible]?

[User] Yes, that did happen. It's like, I didn't feel terribly uncomfortable, but I felt some discomfort, although only a little bit.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] One made it clear to me that was not the style.

[Assistant] But this again was your [inaudible]?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] One made it clear to me that was not the style.

[Assistant] But this again was your [inaudible]?

[User] Well, actually, actually, by that time I had been assigned a home. And there were three new homes that had been completed and the geography teacher had a home by himself, and then the chemistry and physics teacher shared a home. And then the biology teacher, his wife, with two children, had the other home. And so we ate in the home where the physics and the chemistry teacher roomed together. But we split the wages of the cook four ways.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] Kisumu, a major seaport in west Kenya was about 17 miles away, and that was very accessible and a lot of times somebody would be going to Kisumu so I could go in and shop. See my friend Sue Boardman, who taught biology at one of the schools.

[Assistant] But you would always drive down? [inaudible]


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Kisumu, a major seaport in west Kenya was about 17 miles away, and that was very accessible and a lot of times somebody would be going to Kisumu so I could go in and shop. See my friend Sue Boardman, who taught biology at one of the schools.

[Assistant] But you would always drive down? [inaudible]

[User] Rarely. I could go out and hitchhike, that was easy too. I could just go out and stick my thumb out and catch a ride with somebody else who was coming down from Butere or.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] I have to admit, I was really busy and so I didn't dwell on the unusual stuff so much. I really was trying to prepare and also grade papers because I really thought that students had to learn how to read and write English well. So I took that responsibility seriously. And I thought that I maybe wasn't the best teacher, but I was adequate.

[Assistant] What were your other responsibilities?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Rarely. I could go out and hitchhike, that was easy too. I could just go out and stick my thumb out and catch a ride with somebody else who was coming down from Butere or.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] I have to admit, I was really busy and so I didn't dwell on the unusual stuff so much. I really was trying to prepare and also grade papers because I really thought that students had to learn how to read and write English well. So I took that responsibility seriously. And I thought that I maybe wasn't the best teacher, but I was adequate.

[Assistant] What were your other responsibilities?

[User] Well, I was the basketball coach, I introduced basketball, in fact even helped carve out, chopped. I didn't do the chopping, but carved out a place where we made a basketball court. And our first game was against a school that had been playing basketball for quite a while and we lost 64-8. We scored one basket each quarter. And I was the scout master. And we had a newspaper that was published, certainly once a semester, and I was responsible for that. And I had the yearbook, which was published at the end of each year.

[Assistant] Were these assigned or were they volunteer?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I have to admit, I was really busy and so I didn't dwell on the unusual stuff so much. I really was trying to prepare and also grade papers because I really thought that students had to learn how to read and write English well. So I took that responsibility seriously. And I thought that I maybe wasn't the best teacher, but I was adequate.

[Assistant] What were your other responsibilities?

[User] Well, I was the basketball coach, I introduced basketball, in fact even helped carve out, chopped. I didn't do the chopping, but carved out a place where we made a basketball court. And our first game was against a school that had been playing basketball for quite a while and we lost 64-8. We scored one basket each quarter. And I was the scout master. And we had a newspaper that was published, certainly once a semester, and I was responsible for that. And I had the yearbook, which was published at the end of each year.

[Assistant] Were these assigned or were they volunteer?

[User] No, they were assigned by the headmaster. And then one month out of the year, one month out of the semester, we would have chapel duty. I wasn't terribly steeped in the Bible so sometimes I would read [inaudible]. And that was, that was not [inaudible] headmaster who was a missionary.

[Assistant] So you were supposed to get up in front of?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I was the basketball coach, I introduced basketball, in fact even helped carve out, chopped. I didn't do the chopping, but carved out a place where we made a basketball court. And our first game was against a school that had been playing basketball for quite a while and we lost 64-8. We scored one basket each quarter. And I was the scout master. And we had a newspaper that was published, certainly once a semester, and I was responsible for that. And I had the yearbook, which was published at the end of each year.

[Assistant] Were these assigned or were they volunteer?

[User] No, they were assigned by the headmaster. And then one month out of the year, one month out of the semester, we would have chapel duty. I wasn't terribly steeped in the Bible so sometimes I would read [inaudible]. And that was, that was not [inaudible] headmaster who was a missionary.

[Assistant] So you were supposed to get up in front of?

[User] Three hundred students. It would be a ten or 15 minute inspirational, that's probably what we'd call it today. [tape break]

[Assistant] We were talking about [inaudible]. During your first year, how often did you go away from the school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, they were assigned by the headmaster. And then one month out of the year, one month out of the semester, we would have chapel duty. I wasn't terribly steeped in the Bible so sometimes I would read [inaudible]. And that was, that was not [inaudible] headmaster who was a missionary.

[Assistant] So you were supposed to get up in front of?

[User] Three hundred students. It would be a ten or 15 minute inspirational, that's probably what we'd call it today. [tape break]

[Assistant] We were talking about [inaudible]. During your first year, how often did you go away from the school?

[User] Actually, I didn't go away a lot. I enjoyed the school. I enjoyed the students. I enjoyed the Brits, I enjoyed the African staff. So I didn't feel a great need.

[Assistant] You didn't feel [inaudible]?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Actually, I didn't go away a lot. I enjoyed the school. I enjoyed the students. I enjoyed the Brits, I enjoyed the African staff. So I didn't feel a great need.

[Assistant] You didn't feel [inaudible]?

[User] I felt neutral. I mean, I felt comfortable with the African staff. And I had a lot of respect for both. The teachers were very competent and very bright.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] Yes, they were teachers from East Africa with the exception of the headmaster, of course, who came out of the Anglican Church. And then the biology teacher also was Anglican missionary. And then there was another missionary who was on leave. So there were three missionaries still left over from the old colonial days.

[Assistant] Were there any [inaudible]?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I felt neutral. I mean, I felt comfortable with the African staff. And I had a lot of respect for both. The teachers were very competent and very bright.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] Yes, they were teachers from East Africa with the exception of the headmaster, of course, who came out of the Anglican Church. And then the biology teacher also was Anglican missionary. And then there was another missionary who was on leave. So there were three missionaries still left over from the old colonial days.

[Assistant] Were there any [inaudible]?

[User] Well, the only, the only one was when [inaudible]. Students were very considerate, thoughtful, thankful, appreciative, respectful.

[Assistant] What was the size of the class?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, the only, the only one was when [inaudible]. Students were very considerate, thoughtful, thankful, appreciative, respectful.

[Assistant] What was the size of the class?

[User] Thirty students in a class, at least in forms 3 and 4. And they did their homework. If they had questions, they would say, I don't understand, can you explain? Just tremendous respect. Teachers were really in an elevated position at that time.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] It was certainly adequately staffed. Probably an old country schoolhouse with the description of the old wooden desks, a row of 30, whatever. Six rows with five desks each. And there was a blackboard, chalk. And no electricity. I mean, there was electricity, but at night. But buildings kind of latched, you know, where you had daylight, but then you'd close it down at night to not let the mosquitos in and keep the lights on.

[Assistant] And so the students had textbooks. Do they work out of exercise books?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Thirty students in a class, at least in forms 3 and 4. And they did their homework. If they had questions, they would say, I don't understand, can you explain? Just tremendous respect. Teachers were really in an elevated position at that time.

[Assistant] [inaudible]

[User] It was certainly adequately staffed. Probably an old country schoolhouse with the description of the old wooden desks, a row of 30, whatever. Six rows with five desks each. And there was a blackboard, chalk. And no electricity. I mean, there was electricity, but at night. But buildings kind of latched, you know, where you had daylight, but then you'd close it down at night to not let the mosquitos in and keep the lights on.

[Assistant] And so the students had textbooks. Do they work out of exercise books?

[User] Yes. What we would, when we would take an exam. Blue books I think is what we called them. And that's, that's basically what they had.

[Assistant] So during the first year [inaudible].


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. What we would, when we would take an exam. Blue books I think is what we called them. And that's, that's basically what they had.

[Assistant] So during the first year [inaudible].

[User] The doctor? Maybe. I mean, I didn't have a lot of visitors. I don't know why that was. You know, whether because I was surviving and things seemingly were going okay or what. I don't know. I certainly knew that I was supported and if I needed someone, I could. We did have a phone.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] I knew that folks were accessible.

[Assistant] Yeah. And so you didn't [inaudible].


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The doctor? Maybe. I mean, I didn't have a lot of visitors. I don't know why that was. You know, whether because I was surviving and things seemingly were going okay or what. I don't know. I certainly knew that I was supported and if I needed someone, I could. We did have a phone.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] I knew that folks were accessible.

[Assistant] Yeah. And so you didn't [inaudible].

[User]
I did not. In fact, I remember, I remember the physics and chemistry teacher had a motorcycle. BMW, I think. And they taught me how to ride it. Wednesdays we didn't teach in the afternoon. And he said, why don't you go over to whatever, 20 or 30 miles away there was a Peace Corps volunteer. He said, take the bike. I took the darn thing over and skidded. Took a lot of skin off and it was a stupid thing for me to do, not being very competent. So anyway, I got the bike up to Majengo and then somebody, the government, a Land Rover, came by and took me back to the school. It took three baths to wash the stone grit out. And then I took a bottle of rubbing alcohol.

And the nurse when she discovered what had happened, she realized I'd done the right thing, but was amazed that I could tolerate that much pain because I was, I had a lot of spots where I poured the alcohol.

[Assistant] The nurse at school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I knew that folks were accessible.

[Assistant] Yeah. And so you didn't [inaudible].

[User]
I did not. In fact, I remember, I remember the physics and chemistry teacher had a motorcycle. BMW, I think. And they taught me how to ride it. Wednesdays we didn't teach in the afternoon. And he said, why don't you go over to whatever, 20 or 30 miles away there was a Peace Corps volunteer. He said, take the bike. I took the darn thing over and skidded. Took a lot of skin off and it was a stupid thing for me to do, not being very competent. So anyway, I got the bike up to Majengo and then somebody, the government, a Land Rover, came by and took me back to the school. It took three baths to wash the stone grit out. And then I took a bottle of rubbing alcohol.

And the nurse when she discovered what had happened, she realized I'd done the right thing, but was amazed that I could tolerate that much pain because I was, I had a lot of spots where I poured the alcohol.

[Assistant] The nurse at school?

[User] Yeah, the nurse at school, the biology teacher's wife was a nurse. And then she got some salve for me and some gauze. And then finally, about a week later, a Peace Corps doctor came out.

[Assistant] Wasn't there a policy [inaudible]?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
I did not. In fact, I remember, I remember the physics and chemistry teacher had a motorcycle. BMW, I think. And they taught me how to ride it. Wednesdays we didn't teach in the afternoon. And he said, why don't you go over to whatever, 20 or 30 miles away there was a Peace Corps volunteer. He said, take the bike. I took the darn thing over and skidded. Took a lot of skin off and it was a stupid thing for me to do, not being very competent. So anyway, I got the bike up to Majengo and then somebody, the government, a Land Rover, came by and took me back to the school. It took three baths to wash the stone grit out. And then I took a bottle of rubbing alcohol.

And the nurse when she discovered what had happened, she realized I'd done the right thing, but was amazed that I could tolerate that much pain because I was, I had a lot of spots where I poured the alcohol.

[Assistant] The nurse at school?

[User] Yeah, the nurse at school, the biology teacher's wife was a nurse. And then she got some salve for me and some gauze. And then finally, about a week later, a Peace Corps doctor came out.

[Assistant] Wasn't there a policy [inaudible]?

[User] There probably was.

[Assistant] [inaudible] As you're coming to the end of the first year, what was your sense of [inaudible]?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, the nurse at school, the biology teacher's wife was a nurse. And then she got some salve for me and some gauze. And then finally, about a week later, a Peace Corps doctor came out.

[Assistant] Wasn't there a policy [inaudible]?

[User] There probably was.

[Assistant] [inaudible] As you're coming to the end of the first year, what was your sense of [inaudible]?

[User] Well, I did feel good about, or at least I thought I was doing a good job of teaching. That I felt comfortable with.

[Assistant] But you didn't get feedback from anyone else? [inaudible]


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There probably was.

[Assistant] [inaudible] As you're coming to the end of the first year, what was your sense of [inaudible]?

[User] Well, I did feel good about, or at least I thought I was doing a good job of teaching. That I felt comfortable with.

[Assistant] But you didn't get feedback from anyone else? [inaudible]

[User] No, nobody on staff came to observe my teaching.

[Assistant] Did you get any feedback in any way?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, nobody on staff came to observe my teaching.

[Assistant] Did you get any feedback in any way?

[User] In kind of a roundabout way. I mean, they didn't come right out say you're doing a great job. But they appreciated the fact that they were learning English or learning British Empire history, which I thought was an interesting twist.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Read about the American Revolution as to how it's written by the Brits and, you know, the other, the basketball, yearbook, the newspaper, you know, the outside activities were going well and the students were seemingly enjoying those activities, which I was involved in.

[Assistant] Did you have much informal contact with the students?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In kind of a roundabout way. I mean, they didn't come right out say you're doing a great job. But they appreciated the fact that they were learning English or learning British Empire history, which I thought was an interesting twist.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Read about the American Revolution as to how it's written by the Brits and, you know, the other, the basketball, yearbook, the newspaper, you know, the outside activities were going well and the students were seemingly enjoying those activities, which I was involved in.

[Assistant] Did you have much informal contact with the students?

[User] Well, I had a dormitory.

[Assistant] Oh, you did? Okay.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I had a dormitory.

[Assistant] Oh, you did? Okay.

[User] And so certainly two or three times a week I would wander over in the evening just to see how they were doing and if there's anything that they needed before. And then of course, I had ten banana trees in the yard. So when bananas get ripe, you've got arms of bananas and I'd give them to all ten dorms. I just, I wouldn't give them to my dorm.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] The Africans appreciated the extra food.

[Assistant] Did the students question you about America? And do you have any sense of what their perception was of you as a Peace Corps volunteer? Did they distinguish you from the Brits?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so certainly two or three times a week I would wander over in the evening just to see how they were doing and if there's anything that they needed before. And then of course, I had ten banana trees in the yard. So when bananas get ripe, you've got arms of bananas and I'd give them to all ten dorms. I just, I wouldn't give them to my dorm.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] The Africans appreciated the extra food.

[Assistant] Did the students question you about America? And do you have any sense of what their perception was of you as a Peace Corps volunteer? Did they distinguish you from the Brits?

[User] Well, certainly when we got into Vietnam that became an issue for the Kenyan students.

[Assistant] This is during your second year, isn't it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The Africans appreciated the extra food.

[Assistant] Did the students question you about America? And do you have any sense of what their perception was of you as a Peace Corps volunteer? Did they distinguish you from the Brits?

[User] Well, certainly when we got into Vietnam that became an issue for the Kenyan students.

[Assistant] This is during your second year, isn't it?

[User] During my second year, yes. 1966.

[Assistant] How'd it become an issue?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, the students just couldn't figure out what in the world was America doing in this? I mean, they saw it as a form of colonialism, I mean, which from their perspective is absolutely right.

[Assistant] Right, right.

[User] And they thought it was dead wrong. And then, of course, the Congo thing was going on too.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And they just thought the American government was intervening inappropriately.

[Assistant] Where did, I mean, did you sit down in the dorm and say, let's talk about Vietnam? Or did it come up in class?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] A lot of times it would come up when I'd have time. We'd discussed the material that we covered for that day and have an extra 10 minutes.

[Assistant] In class?

[User] In class, yeah. And so I'd say, is there anything you want to talk about?

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And they'd say, yeah, what in the world are you folks doing in the Congo or? I don't remember what it was that happened at the time.

[Assistant] Yeah. I assume their language is a little bit more formal than, what are you folks doing in?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And they'd say, yeah, what in the world are you folks doing in the Congo or? I don't remember what it was that happened at the time.

[Assistant] Yeah. I assume their language is a little bit more formal than, what are you folks doing in?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And there certainly was a level of politeness.

[Assistant] Yeah. So that, you never had a strong expression of anti- Americanism?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And there certainly was a level of politeness.

[Assistant] Yeah. So that, you never had a strong expression of anti- Americanism?

[User] No.

[Assistant] Or anything directed personally against you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And there certainly was a level of politeness.

[Assistant] Yeah. So that, you never had a strong expression of anti- Americanism?

[User] No.

[Assistant] Or anything directed personally against you?

[User] No.

[Assistant] In those settings, did you feel called on to try to defend America, or how did you, whatever your own feelings about the Vietnam War?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] Or anything directed personally against you?

[User] No.

[Assistant] In those settings, did you feel called on to try to defend America, or how did you, whatever your own feelings about the Vietnam War?

[User] I was, I was raised in a very conservative political family, and my basic source of information was Time magazine. And Time magazine supported the war so I supported the war in Vietnam. And so I defended American policy in Vietnam. Talked about the domino theory and the spread of communism.

[Assistant] Right. And your students bought it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was, I was raised in a very conservative political family, and my basic source of information was Time magazine. And Time magazine supported the war so I supported the war in Vietnam. And so I defended American policy in Vietnam. Talked about the domino theory and the spread of communism.

[Assistant] Right. And your students bought it?

[User] No! They understood my point of view.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And they respected my being able to defend it, but they still didn't agree with it.

[Assistant] Yeah. Well, let's jump. There must have been somewhere a long break between first and second year.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No! They understood my point of view.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And they respected my being able to defend it, but they still didn't agree with it.

[Assistant] Yeah. Well, let's jump. There must have been somewhere a long break between first and second year.

[User] Well, there are these months between.

[Assistant] Oh, that's right. Yeah. What did you do with the free time? Initially, I suppose you used it to prepare for teaching.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, there are these months between.

[Assistant] Oh, that's right. Yeah. What did you do with the free time? Initially, I suppose you used it to prepare for teaching.

[User] Well, I also traveled, but I would find the Peace Corps said you have 30 days of vacation here.

[Assistant] Right. Yeah.

[User] But find a project.

[Assistant] Ah, yeah. Okay.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In Uhuru.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And so I'm, I'm getting exposed to language and different experience.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And so I felt very enriched by having that mixture of both working in projects when I was traveling.

[Assistant] What was the project?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so I'm, I'm getting exposed to language and different experience.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And so I felt very enriched by having that mixture of both working in projects when I was traveling.

[Assistant] What was the project?

[User] I'm even blocking on what I was doing, except for I was traveling with these guys who spoke fluent Swahili and they were doing something.

[Assistant] Now they tended to be based on a land settlement area?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so I felt very enriched by having that mixture of both working in projects when I was traveling.

[Assistant] What was the project?

[User] I'm even blocking on what I was doing, except for I was traveling with these guys who spoke fluent Swahili and they were doing something.

[Assistant] Now they tended to be based on a land settlement area?

[User] Yes, they were.

[Assistant] And their role was kind of complicated. It could have been, was it with elementary school kids or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'm even blocking on what I was doing, except for I was traveling with these guys who spoke fluent Swahili and they were doing something.

[Assistant] Now they tended to be based on a land settlement area?

[User] Yes, they were.

[Assistant] And their role was kind of complicated. It could have been, was it with elementary school kids or?

[User] I thought they were working with adults.

[Assistant] No, I mean, they were. But did you come in and sort of?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, they were.

[Assistant] And their role was kind of complicated. It could have been, was it with elementary school kids or?

[User] I thought they were working with adults.

[Assistant] No, I mean, they were. But did you come in and sort of?

[User] No, I was working with them. I was just kind.

[Assistant] Just following them.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I was working with them. I was just kind.

[Assistant] Just following them.

[User] Tagging along.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] I mean, that particular project was, we laughed about it being a project.

[Assistant] Yeah. That's, I mean, two interesting guys to spend time with. Again, I think I said going into the second year, you begin, you know that you're only going to be there another couple of semesters. Did you think in terms of what am I going to accomplish before I leave? Or you just knew that your teaching was it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I have to admit, I stayed focused on the teaching part of it.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] And my goal was for the students. My accomplishment was through the students accomplishing success.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] By taking the Cambridge exam and doing well so they could go on to further education or some kind of career development.

[Assistant] You'd been pretty adventurous in your life up to joining the Peace Corps. While you're in Kenya, I mean, you're under very comfortable circumstance. Were you at all tempted to try to reach out and learn more about the real Kenya? I mean, traditional culture of the Luo or village life or get a student to invite you to his village?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I didn't get invited by any students, but I did get invited by a family that lived off the compound. And I don't know if that person's connection with the school other than he'd graduated from the school. But he worked like for the Agriculture Department.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And I had a couple of times where he would invite me out to dinner and he had twin daughters who were of marriage age.

[Assistant] Oh. Yeah.

[User] If he probably only had one daughter, I might have had a different outlook. But now I'm in a dilemma here. I don't want to offend anybody. I mean, I'm maybe jesting or misreading but. I enjoyed that contact, but I didn't pursue it beyond just the, the dinners and the camaraderie. I did try to, it only lasted for about a month because it really became time, terribly time consuming. I went out to an elementary school and tried one hour a week and it took me like an hour to get there. And I tried to teach English, but that then that was like on my Wednesday afternoon that I had off. So I only did that probably for six or seven times, maybe four.

[Assistant] How did, how did that get set up?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Because one of the wives of one of the Africans taught in that school.

[Assistant] Ah, okay.

[User] And so she said, gee, if you come out to the school and do this, this would be tremendous.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So it was through her that I knew of the school. When I said an hours, it was probably only a half an hour walk, but an hour, you know, half an hour each way.

[Assistant] So you'd walk out to the school.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So it was through her that I knew of the school. When I said an hours, it was probably only a half an hour walk, but an hour, you know, half an hour each way.

[Assistant] So you'd walk out to the school.

[User] Sure. And it was, it was nice, but it was, became very time consuming from what I really was trying to stay focused on.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But I didn't, I didn't make a lot of inroads in the area with the African population.

[Assistant] And that was a Luo, a traditional group?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But I didn't, I didn't make a lot of inroads in the area with the African population.

[Assistant] And that was a Luo, a traditional group?

[User] Yeah, but there was the Abaluyia, which was a Bantu versus a Nilotic language.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] My, my gardener happened to be a Luo, uh, Abaluyia. And I remember he lost the child through the childbirth process. And so I knew that they would have celebrations because every so often I could hear in the nighttime this wailing. And so I made sure that he had sufficient money to, for the burial and for.

[Assistant] Right. You didn't you didn't try to improve your Swahili, did you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, but there was the Abaluyia, which was a Bantu versus a Nilotic language.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] My, my gardener happened to be a Luo, uh, Abaluyia. And I remember he lost the child through the childbirth process. And so I knew that they would have celebrations because every so often I could hear in the nighttime this wailing. And so I made sure that he had sufficient money to, for the burial and for.

[Assistant] Right. You didn't you didn't try to improve your Swahili, did you?

[User] I did not.

[Assistant] Okay. That's not an accusation. It's just that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'm very, very honest about it.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Interesting, though. I made sure that I spoke with my gardener.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] And he did something one day. It usually rained, if it rained, it rained at 4:00 or 4:30 in the afternoon. The rains were very predictable. One day the clouds came up about 11:30 in the morning and he came trotting up with my raincoat. And these British people said, how did you train him to do that? And I said, I didn't. It's just the fact that he appreciates me and I appreciate him and he's taking care of me.

[Assistant] In the second year, had the faculty changed much? Had people come, people go?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And he did something one day. It usually rained, if it rained, it rained at 4:00 or 4:30 in the afternoon. The rains were very predictable. One day the clouds came up about 11:30 in the morning and he came trotting up with my raincoat. And these British people said, how did you train him to do that? And I said, I didn't. It's just the fact that he appreciates me and I appreciate him and he's taking care of me.

[Assistant] In the second year, had the faculty changed much? Had people come, people go?

[User] As I mentioned, the physics teacher married an American TEA teacher. And so then she taught some of the English.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And so that was, so then the chemistry teacher. He had worked with a physics teacher, but he moved out or went back to England, because obviously the wife took his place in that household. That's still where we ate dinner. I mean, I still ate dinner with them, but there was no, there wasn't a major shift.

[Assistant] And your health generally was okay after the initial bout you had when you arrived, generally good?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I maintained very good health.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Except for I had my bottom, I had my wisdom teeth pulled.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] Right just before I was ready to get out because I wanted to have it done at government expense because I had a 90 degree root on both sides.

[Assistant] Yeah. And that was done in Nairobi?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Except for I had my bottom, I had my wisdom teeth pulled.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] Right just before I was ready to get out because I wanted to have it done at government expense because I had a 90 degree root on both sides.

[Assistant] Yeah. And that was done in Nairobi?

[User] Yes. No, no, no. Kisumu.

[Assistant] In Kisumu? Okay.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And he was wanting to drive me back up to the compound. I said, no, I could hitchhike, which I did. And I also had been invited over to dinner to a teacher's college, and I said, I'm really sorry, but I just had my wisdom teeth pulled. And I said, I don't think I'm going to be feeling well in a couple of hours. And so I ate soup and easy things to eat. And they took me home, a delightful couple from Winnipeg, and sure enough, I was sick for four days. This was on Wednesday afternoon, and the afternoon we had off I had my teeth pulled.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] So I crawled over to the classroom and wrote the assignments on the board, said sick, and then went back over Friday and Saturday. By Sunday afternoon, I was back to normal. But, boy, those four days were terrible. Otherwise, no, I was not sick.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But I had consistently lost 25 pounds over a period of time. So I weighed 125 pounds. And I understand losing 25 pounds for a male is not abnormal in the tropical climate.

[Assistant] Right. Right. It's, uh. At the end, between the first and second year, was there a conference of the group? Were you called together? A mid-term conference it would have been called, I think.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I crawled over to the classroom and wrote the assignments on the board, said sick, and then went back over Friday and Saturday. By Sunday afternoon, I was back to normal. But, boy, those four days were terrible. Otherwise, no, I was not sick.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But I had consistently lost 25 pounds over a period of time. So I weighed 125 pounds. And I understand losing 25 pounds for a male is not abnormal in the tropical climate.

[Assistant] Right. Right. It's, uh. At the end, between the first and second year, was there a conference of the group? Were you called together? A mid-term conference it would have been called, I think.

[User] You know, we might have. By that time maybe you're gone?

[Assistant] I think so. I was out of Kenya.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We had a formal get together down at Mombasa or Malindi.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] When we were ready to be discharged, probably.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Four weeks before we got discharged.

[Assistant] Right. Right. And that was the termination conference?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] When we were ready to be discharged, probably.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Four weeks before we got discharged.

[Assistant] Right. Right. And that was the termination conference?

[User] Thank you, that's the term I'm trying to fish for.

[Assistant] Yeah. And so the whole group gathered in Malindi.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Four weeks before we got discharged.

[Assistant] Right. Right. And that was the termination conference?

[User] Thank you, that's the term I'm trying to fish for.

[Assistant] Yeah. And so the whole group gathered in Malindi.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Which is easy to take. It's a beachy resort.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Thank you, that's the term I'm trying to fish for.

[Assistant] Yeah. And so the whole group gathered in Malindi.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Which is easy to take. It's a beachy resort.

[User] Oh yeah, it was plush.

[Assistant] I gather during the two years you did not have much contact with other volunteers?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Which is easy to take. It's a beachy resort.

[User] Oh yeah, it was plush.

[Assistant] I gather during the two years you did not have much contact with other volunteers?

[User] Sporadically.

[Assistant] Yeah. I mean, your real focus tended to, stayed within the school community.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yeah, it was plush.

[Assistant] I gather during the two years you did not have much contact with other volunteers?

[User] Sporadically.

[Assistant] Yeah. I mean, your real focus tended to, stayed within the school community.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So now you come back and two years are over and you suddenly.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So now you come back and two years are over and you suddenly.

[User] Well, with the exception when we'd have those month periods. Like one time I went to Nairobi and spent. The Presbyterian Church had sent a shipload of books to Kenya. So one of the projects was to support, to separate these books out.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] And then try to catalog them in some way, shape or form. And then schools would be getting these books. And so that was one of the projects that I did.

[Assistant] Where did you stay when you were in Nairobi?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then try to catalog them in some way, shape or form. And then schools would be getting these books. And so that was one of the projects that I did.

[Assistant] Where did you stay when you were in Nairobi?

[User] There was, there was a hotel that was not terribly expensive. It was within a block or two of the Peace Corps office.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And so that was within my budget.

[Assistant] Now, you were being paid a living allowance by the Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There was, there was a hotel that was not terribly expensive. It was within a block or two of the Peace Corps office.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And so that was within my budget.

[Assistant] Now, you were being paid a living allowance by the Peace Corps?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Was that, did that tend to be adequate?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so that was within my budget.

[Assistant] Now, you were being paid a living allowance by the Peace Corps?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Was that, did that tend to be adequate?

[User] Oh, I, I. It would not have been enough to support a vehicle, but it was enough for me to pay for a fourth of a cook's wage, to pay for a gardener. And to save enough money to buy a Pentax camera and wide angle lens and photo lens and tripod.

[Assistant] You were specifically forbidden from owning a vehicle?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] So, so the $100 a month I got, and the $10 for my rent.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] The $110 I got, I probably was able to save 30 to 40 percent of that.

[Assistant] And was that deposited to your account in Maseno?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So, so the $100 a month I got, and the $10 for my rent.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] The $110 I got, I probably was able to save 30 to 40 percent of that.

[Assistant] And was that deposited to your account in Maseno?

[User] I think that's how it works. Yeah.

[Assistant] All right. Let's jump back to the termination conference. And your, the group gathers now, I guess for the first time in the two years?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The $110 I got, I probably was able to save 30 to 40 percent of that.

[Assistant] And was that deposited to your account in Maseno?

[User] I think that's how it works. Yeah.

[Assistant] All right. Let's jump back to the termination conference. And your, the group gathers now, I guess for the first time in the two years?

[User] It might have really been in that break between.

[Assistant] Well, yeah, okay.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think that's how it works. Yeah.

[Assistant] All right. Let's jump back to the termination conference. And your, the group gathers now, I guess for the first time in the two years?

[User] It might have really been in that break between.

[Assistant] Well, yeah, okay.

[User] Semesters, because I don't think, we didn't teach for that three or four days.

[Assistant] Right. Right. Okay.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It might have really been in that break between.

[Assistant] Well, yeah, okay.

[User] Semesters, because I don't think, we didn't teach for that three or four days.

[Assistant] Right. Right. Okay.

[User] It was, it was in preparation for us to be prepared for culture shock going back to the United States.

[Assistant] How was that played out? I mean.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then plus the friendships that we had that were people that were in proximity. Like Sue Boardman for me.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Sue I saw fairly frequently.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] That was delightful in that, as you mentioned, that Malindi was plush and probably not terribly expensive in those days, but seeing the ocean and the flowers were just magnificent.

[Assistant] The settlement group wasn't there at the same time, was it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Sue I saw fairly frequently.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] That was delightful in that, as you mentioned, that Malindi was plush and probably not terribly expensive in those days, but seeing the ocean and the flowers were just magnificent.

[Assistant] The settlement group wasn't there at the same time, was it?

[User] No. They were obviously having their conference at a different time, maybe at the same place, but different times. Just the teachers.

[Assistant] And at that point you at all tempted to extend for a third year?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] At that time also they, not necessarily in Kenya, but in Micronesia, they said you can spend a year in Micronesia.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] And I was tempted to do that. But I was 31.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And I was saying, you know, I could, I could be an adolescent all my life, live in this abnormal environment.

[Assistant] You had a sense that this was not the way the world really was.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I was saying, you know, I could, I could be an adolescent all my life, live in this abnormal environment.

[Assistant] You had a sense that this was not the way the world really was.

[User] But I was grateful for that conference in preparation of serious culture shock when you get back to the United States because from '64 to '66 with the Vietnam, the social uprisings.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] A lot of change.

[Assistant] Was it run in small groups?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But I was grateful for that conference in preparation of serious culture shock when you get back to the United States because from '64 to '66 with the Vietnam, the social uprisings.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] A lot of change.

[Assistant] Was it run in small groups?

[User] Yes. They're kind of like a big talk and then you split off.

[Assistant] Were there facilitators for each group?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] A lot of change.

[Assistant] Was it run in small groups?

[User] Yes. They're kind of like a big talk and then you split off.

[Assistant] Were there facilitators for each group?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And was it, did they tend to be lively exchanges or were people simply impatient and say, you know, I don't need to hear that, let me?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. They're kind of like a big talk and then you split off.

[Assistant] Were there facilitators for each group?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And was it, did they tend to be lively exchanges or were people simply impatient and say, you know, I don't need to hear that, let me?

[User] No, I, at least I thought people were very receptive to what was being said in preparation for what life was going to be like.

[Assistant] Had many of the group terminated early? I mean, I don't know, you were 35 to begin.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And was it, did they tend to be lively exchanges or were people simply impatient and say, you know, I don't need to hear that, let me?

[User] No, I, at least I thought people were very receptive to what was being said in preparation for what life was going to be like.

[Assistant] Had many of the group terminated early? I mean, I don't know, you were 35 to begin.

[User] I'm only aware of two people quitting in midstream.

[Assistant] So it was still 30 some people.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I, at least I thought people were very receptive to what was being said in preparation for what life was going to be like.

[Assistant] Had many of the group terminated early? I mean, I don't know, you were 35 to begin.

[User] I'm only aware of two people quitting in midstream.

[Assistant] So it was still 30 some people.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Do you remember if there was discussion with the young men about the possibility of facing the draft when they came home? Because things had changed and the war had become a little more intense by then.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Do you remember if there was discussion with the young men about the possibility of facing the draft when they came home? Because things had changed and the war had become a little more intense by then.

[User] It certainly was mentioned. I mean, the war was heating up, had heated up.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And that, you know, you. Whatever draft deferment you had before, you might not have.

[Assistant]
Yeah.

For the experience and now being with the group, will you still in your sensitivities essentially a Republican? Had you shifted or drifted at all?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] My, I had left Flint and my congressman going back to Flint was Don Riegle.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And Don was a Republican at that time.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] In his fourth term in the House, he switched to be a Democrat because of Vietnam, and then served a fifth term as a Democrat. Fifth term in Congress, but as a Democrat. And then, of course, he ran for the U.S. Senate and won to replace Phil Hart. And of course, Senator Hart died even before the term was over. And finally Riegle became my senator for 18 years. He became a senator for 18 years. And I knew Mark Hatfield a little bit. So there are some decent Republicans still on the scope.

[Assistant] But sitting in the termination conference or being near the end of your service, were you would at all reflective about how you had changed or what you'd gone through or what it all meant to you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In his fourth term in the House, he switched to be a Democrat because of Vietnam, and then served a fifth term as a Democrat. Fifth term in Congress, but as a Democrat. And then, of course, he ran for the U.S. Senate and won to replace Phil Hart. And of course, Senator Hart died even before the term was over. And finally Riegle became my senator for 18 years. He became a senator for 18 years. And I knew Mark Hatfield a little bit. So there are some decent Republicans still on the scope.

[Assistant] But sitting in the termination conference or being near the end of your service, were you would at all reflective about how you had changed or what you'd gone through or what it all meant to you?

[User] It probably hadn't crystallized.

[Assistant] Yeah, okay.

[User] But certainly the seeds had been planted.

[Assistant] At that point then, what was your plan? I mean, obviously you were leaving Kenya in a fairly short time.