[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And they just stared at me. It was like, I dare you.

[Assistant] Could you guess how long they might have been?

[User] Oh my gosh, 12 inches? They were so huge.

[Assistant] Oh my gosh.

[User] And they would there was at least four, maybe five of them, that walked across the rafters. One night one fell. And I said, that's it. And so I got the exterminators.

[Assistant] Did it ever fall on you or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh my gosh, 12 inches? They were so huge.

[Assistant] Oh my gosh.

[User] And they would there was at least four, maybe five of them, that walked across the rafters. One night one fell. And I said, that's it. And so I got the exterminators.

[Assistant] Did it ever fall on you or?

[User] No, thank God. I got the, I found the exterminators. They'd gone to the other end of the island. They came back and I told them, the rats are still in the house. And they were so hilarious. They said, you know, I think we need Kill Rat.

[Assistant] Is that like rat kill, would you say so?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It's some kind of.

[Assistant] Kill Rat.

[User] It was called Kill Rat and it literally was in English and it said Kill Rat on it. So they ran out and bought Kill Rat.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Put it in the house. But in the meantime, I had to sleep on my neighbor's porch and I remember hearing them rattling around and putting the flashlight over to my house at night and I'd see them walking around.

[Assistant] Oh, the rats?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was called Kill Rat and it literally was in English and it said Kill Rat on it. So they ran out and bought Kill Rat.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Put it in the house. But in the meantime, I had to sleep on my neighbor's porch and I remember hearing them rattling around and putting the flashlight over to my house at night and I'd see them walking around.

[Assistant] Oh, the rats?

[User] Yes, but they put the Kill Rat out and within about a week they were gone. And I got to go back to the house.

[Assistant] Oh my goodness.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, but they put the Kill Rat out and within about a week they were gone. And I got to go back to the house.

[Assistant] Oh my goodness.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Snakes.

[User] Snakes, spiders, rats.

[Assistant] How about bats?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Snakes, spiders, rats.

[Assistant] How about bats?

[User] Nope, no bats.

[Assistant] No bats.

[User] No bats.

[Assistant] Okay. Did you have a big mosquito problem?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Nope, no bats.

[Assistant] No bats.

[User] No bats.

[Assistant] Okay. Did you have a big mosquito problem?

[User] Yes. Yes.

[Assistant] Inside the house, I mean?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Yes.

[Assistant] Inside the house, I mean?

[User] In the house, out of the house. And initially, I didn't realize how bad the mosquitoes were on the island, and I was just eaten alive on my arms and lower legs. And I found out that I either had to wear repellent all the time or long sleeve everything, and it was too hot to wear long sleeves. So I did the repellent and I initially had infected mosquito bites on my arms. To this day, I'm scarred from it. They got so infected.

[Assistant] Really?

[User] Well, it's fading. A little bit dramatic over that.

[Assistant] Did you ever get malaria or dengue fever?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, it's fading. A little bit dramatic over that.

[Assistant] Did you ever get malaria or dengue fever?

[User] Well, I didn't get dengue, but I, when I returned to the States, I had symptoms of malaria. I started having cyclic fevers. And of course, when I went to the doctor, they did the blood test. It was negative because you have to be febrile basically.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] But it only, it only happened once and then it was over. And I don't know, I don't know if it was malaria or not. I really don't know. I did. There was a PhD student from Princeton who was there when I was there and he.

[Assistant] In Roatan, in Coxen Hole?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I didn't get dengue, but I, when I returned to the States, I had symptoms of malaria. I started having cyclic fevers. And of course, when I went to the doctor, they did the blood test. It was negative because you have to be febrile basically.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] But it only, it only happened once and then it was over. And I don't know, I don't know if it was malaria or not. I really don't know. I did. There was a PhD student from Princeton who was there when I was there and he.

[Assistant] In Roatan, in Coxen Hole?

[User] Yes. Well, yeah, he was working on, um. There was a different language spoken on the other end of the island that he was writing.

[Assistant] And what was that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But it only, it only happened once and then it was over. And I don't know, I don't know if it was malaria or not. I really don't know. I did. There was a PhD student from Princeton who was there when I was there and he.

[Assistant] In Roatan, in Coxen Hole?

[User] Yes. Well, yeah, he was working on, um. There was a different language spoken on the other end of the island that he was writing.

[Assistant] And what was that?

[User] It was Garifano [Garifuna].

[Assistant] Okay. And for the, for the listener, would you spell Garifano?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I don't know that there is a spelling.

[Assistant] I think.

[User] G-A-R. Garif?

[Assistant] I-F-U-N-A.

[User] I-N-O. Garifino?

[Assistant] Oh. Oh yeah. Okay. What is, what is Garifuna?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] G-A-R. Garif?

[Assistant] I-F-U-N-A.

[User] I-N-O. Garifino?

[Assistant] Oh. Oh yeah. Okay. What is, what is Garifuna?

[User] It is, uh, Garifuna. It was a language spoken by the inhabitants of the opposite end of the island that I was living on. And it was supposedly a combination of. I don't know if I'm remembering.

[Assistant] An African dialect, wasn't it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I-N-O. Garifino?

[Assistant] Oh. Oh yeah. Okay. What is, what is Garifuna?

[User] It is, uh, Garifuna. It was a language spoken by the inhabitants of the opposite end of the island that I was living on. And it was supposedly a combination of. I don't know if I'm remembering.

[Assistant] An African dialect, wasn't it?

[User] Yes. Because they were, um.

[Assistant] Had been slaves I think.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So it was like an Indian and a Black combination and they had their own language. And so he was working on this. And the reason I'm bringing him up is he got a terrible case of dengue fever. Terrible. And he came to my house and we had some IVs and actually they sold IVs you could buy for your own use at the local pharmacy. So I went and got some IVs and I let him stay in my house and I gave him IV fluids and medication for the fever and whatever I had at the time. And he improved enough to go home, to get a plane and get home. So and he didn't come back for the duration that I was there. He wasn't finished. So I don't know if he ever came back. It was, he was pretty sick.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And, you know, this was so long ago that I may not be remembering correctly. He may have been in a hospital on the mainland for a while. I would imagine, because he was really sick.

[Assistant] Yeah. Okay.

[User] Yeah, but I never got dengue.

[Assistant] Okay. How was your relation with the people of Coxen Hole?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And, you know, this was so long ago that I may not be remembering correctly. He may have been in a hospital on the mainland for a while. I would imagine, because he was really sick.

[Assistant] Yeah. Okay.

[User] Yeah, but I never got dengue.

[Assistant] Okay. How was your relation with the people of Coxen Hole?

[User] It was good. It was good, yeah.

[Assistant] Did you make friends?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was good. It was good, yeah.

[Assistant] Did you make friends?

[User] I did. They were friendly and they were nice and being that we all spoke English, it was easier to get to know people and they were accustomed to, since it was an island, there was this, there was a resort on the other side of the island. So they were accustomed to seeing Americans and people from other countries come through off the little DC-3s that brought in the tourists.

[Assistant] DC-3s, yes.

[User] DC-3s.

[Assistant] Yeah. Those are rather old aren't they?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I did. They were friendly and they were nice and being that we all spoke English, it was easier to get to know people and they were accustomed to, since it was an island, there was this, there was a resort on the other side of the island. So they were accustomed to seeing Americans and people from other countries come through off the little DC-3s that brought in the tourists.

[Assistant] DC-3s, yes.

[User] DC-3s.

[Assistant] Yeah. Those are rather old aren't they?

[User] Yes. We, the only thing that came to the island was DC-3s and they had a caliche landing strip.

[Assistant] Say that again, they had a what?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] DC-3s.

[Assistant] Yeah. Those are rather old aren't they?

[User] Yes. We, the only thing that came to the island was DC-3s and they had a caliche landing strip.

[Assistant] Say that again, they had a what?

[User] Caliche. Caliche is.

[Assistant] What is that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. We, the only thing that came to the island was DC-3s and they had a caliche landing strip.

[Assistant] Say that again, they had a what?

[User] Caliche. Caliche is.

[Assistant] What is that?

[User] It's like the thing that's used for pavement in countries, for country roads. It's kind of dusty, it's a compressed gravel, and there's probably a better explanation for what it is.

[Assistant] Do you know how to spell caliche?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Caliche. Caliche is.

[Assistant] What is that?

[User] It's like the thing that's used for pavement in countries, for country roads. It's kind of dusty, it's a compressed gravel, and there's probably a better explanation for what it is.

[Assistant] Do you know how to spell caliche?

[User] I don't. It's with a C, I think, caliche. But it was a short runway and I remember many times being on the plane, the DC-3, and I pretty much knew from the landmarks when we needed to get lifted and sometimes thinking, oh my God, but.

[Assistant] Otherwise you'd be in the water.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It's like the thing that's used for pavement in countries, for country roads. It's kind of dusty, it's a compressed gravel, and there's probably a better explanation for what it is.

[Assistant] Do you know how to spell caliche?

[User] I don't. It's with a C, I think, caliche. But it was a short runway and I remember many times being on the plane, the DC-3, and I pretty much knew from the landmarks when we needed to get lifted and sometimes thinking, oh my God, but.

[Assistant] Otherwise you'd be in the water.

[User] Otherwise you'd be in the water, but nothing ever happened. Those were amazing planes.

[Assistant] So I was like a gravel like.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't. It's with a C, I think, caliche. But it was a short runway and I remember many times being on the plane, the DC-3, and I pretty much knew from the landmarks when we needed to get lifted and sometimes thinking, oh my God, but.

[Assistant] Otherwise you'd be in the water.

[User] Otherwise you'd be in the water, but nothing ever happened. Those were amazing planes.

[Assistant] So I was like a gravel like.

[User] Yeah, yeah. It was, it wasn't pavement, and it wasn't smooth because it was caliche so.

[Assistant] Okay, I never heard that word. Okay. Were there other Peace Corps volunteers in your town?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Otherwise you'd be in the water, but nothing ever happened. Those were amazing planes.

[Assistant] So I was like a gravel like.

[User] Yeah, yeah. It was, it wasn't pavement, and it wasn't smooth because it was caliche so.

[Assistant] Okay, I never heard that word. Okay. Were there other Peace Corps volunteers in your town?

[User] No.

[Assistant] Were there other Peace Corps volunteers on the island of Roatan?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, yeah. It was, it wasn't pavement, and it wasn't smooth because it was caliche so.

[Assistant] Okay, I never heard that word. Okay. Were there other Peace Corps volunteers in your town?

[User] No.

[Assistant] Were there other Peace Corps volunteers on the island of Roatan?

[User] No.

[Assistant] How about Utila or Guanaja?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] Were there other Peace Corps volunteers on the island of Roatan?

[User] No.

[Assistant] How about Utila or Guanaja?

[User] No, no.

[Assistant] You were it.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] How about Utila or Guanaja?

[User] No, no.

[Assistant] You were it.

[User] That was it on the whole thing.

[Assistant] For the whole time you were there.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no.

[Assistant] You were it.

[User] That was it on the whole thing.

[Assistant] For the whole time you were there.

[User] The whole time, yeah.

[Assistant] Okay. Now this, I'm not sure why this is here. This is talk about the Peace Corps staff and this is assignment. Um. I'm going to skip that part. Tell us about your leisure time. What did you do when you weren't working at the clinic?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was it on the whole thing.

[Assistant] For the whole time you were there.

[User] The whole time, yeah.

[Assistant] Okay. Now this, I'm not sure why this is here. This is talk about the Peace Corps staff and this is assignment. Um. I'm going to skip that part. Tell us about your leisure time. What did you do when you weren't working at the clinic?

[User] I play the piano and of course I couldn't bring a piano with me. I play the piano, but I couldn't take a piano with me. So I took my, I bought a guitar and took it down there.

[Assistant] Did you know how to play the guitar?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The whole time, yeah.

[Assistant] Okay. Now this, I'm not sure why this is here. This is talk about the Peace Corps staff and this is assignment. Um. I'm going to skip that part. Tell us about your leisure time. What did you do when you weren't working at the clinic?

[User] I play the piano and of course I couldn't bring a piano with me. I play the piano, but I couldn't take a piano with me. So I took my, I bought a guitar and took it down there.

[Assistant] Did you know how to play the guitar?

[User] No, but I learned there because I knew I had to play something musical so, and I bought a chord book, so I learned how to play.

[Assistant] You taught yourself.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, but I learned there because I knew I had to play something musical so, and I bought a chord book, so I learned how to play.

[Assistant] You taught yourself.

[User] Yeah, it's not that hard, the guitar. So with the chord book, I learned how to play the guitar.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Not that I play it now, but I did then. I played pretty well for about 20 years.

[Assistant] And what else did you do with your leisure time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, it's not that hard, the guitar. So with the chord book, I learned how to play the guitar.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Not that I play it now, but I did then. I played pretty well for about 20 years.

[Assistant] And what else did you do with your leisure time?

[User] And I read a lot. That was hard though, because I had to read around a candle or a kerosene lamp and it was really hot. And I usually didn't have time in the day to read. And then on the weekends, fortunately I did have a fair amount of visitors. I didn't know most of them. They came to see me.

[Assistant] Well, who come to visit you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not that I play it now, but I did then. I played pretty well for about 20 years.

[Assistant] And what else did you do with your leisure time?

[User] And I read a lot. That was hard though, because I had to read around a candle or a kerosene lamp and it was really hot. And I usually didn't have time in the day to read. And then on the weekends, fortunately I did have a fair amount of visitors. I didn't know most of them. They came to see me.

[Assistant] Well, who come to visit you?

[User] Peace Corps volunteers. And so because it was an island, you know, people wanted to come to the island, so they would come and I would always let anyone stay with me that was a Peace Corps volunteer. So I had.

[Assistant] Was there people you really had no idea who they were?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yeah. Yeah. I usually got a telegram though or. Now, some people showed up and I knew them. I knew who they were.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And but there were some, or I would know one person in a group and I'd say, okay, you're going to sleep on the floor, but you can stay here. I've got some sheets. And I remember these two guys, oh my God. They were sleeping on the floor. I think I had ten people in the house that day, and I heard nothing but whining and complaining all night about not having a bed. And I'm like, I have one bed.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] And it's a single. So that's all I've got.

[Assistant] Yeah. Huh. If I may ask, okay, is your house sounds very simple. Did you have a toilet or did you have to use an outhouse?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And but there were some, or I would know one person in a group and I'd say, okay, you're going to sleep on the floor, but you can stay here. I've got some sheets. And I remember these two guys, oh my God. They were sleeping on the floor. I think I had ten people in the house that day, and I heard nothing but whining and complaining all night about not having a bed. And I'm like, I have one bed.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] And it's a single. So that's all I've got.

[Assistant] Yeah. Huh. If I may ask, okay, is your house sounds very simple. Did you have a toilet or did you have to use an outhouse?

[User] Well, they. I lived next door to my landlord and my landlord, he was a sailor. He was gone most of the time. But he did have enough of the resources and funds to build a bathroom.

[Assistant] Inside your house?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And it's a single. So that's all I've got.

[Assistant] Yeah. Huh. If I may ask, okay, is your house sounds very simple. Did you have a toilet or did you have to use an outhouse?

[User] Well, they. I lived next door to my landlord and my landlord, he was a sailor. He was gone most of the time. But he did have enough of the resources and funds to build a bathroom.

[Assistant] Inside your house?

[User] Yeah, it was, it was attached to the house. So there was a toilet and there was a concrete shower, but there was no water in the house pumped in, but it was hooked to a septic. So what I did, I could use the toilet and I could stand there and take a bath or a shower with like cups. I paid children to go fetch water for me.

[Assistant] And where did they go?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, it was, it was attached to the house. So there was a toilet and there was a concrete shower, but there was no water in the house pumped in, but it was hooked to a septic. So what I did, I could use the toilet and I could stand there and take a bath or a shower with like cups. I paid children to go fetch water for me.

[Assistant] And where did they go?

[User] There, you could go down the hill, down the road. And there were some faucets down there, and they would bring buckets of water to my house. And so I had this big tin that I'd bought, or I had the kids go get for me, and I kept it full of water. And with that, I could bathe every day. And I stood there and just bathed.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And I could do it with, like, a cereal bowl. I mean, I got so good at it.

[Assistant] And you mean like a?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There, you could go down the hill, down the road. And there were some faucets down there, and they would bring buckets of water to my house. And so I had this big tin that I'd bought, or I had the kids go get for me, and I kept it full of water. And with that, I could bathe every day. And I stood there and just bathed.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And I could do it with, like, a cereal bowl. I mean, I got so good at it.

[Assistant] And you mean like a?

[User] A cereal bowl of water, yeah. Two cereal bowls.

[Assistant] There was no cereal in there.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] A cereal bowl of water, yeah. Two cereal bowls.

[Assistant] There was no cereal in there.

[User] Not usually.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] But then I had to use a fair amount, of course, to flush the toilet. And honestly, thank gosh, it usually flushed. It really did. I was, I was lucky on the, in that respect. I didn't have electricity. I didn't have any running water. I didn't have a way to cook. I did buy a kerosene burner with the kerosene bottle. And that kind of blew up and smoked and almost burned. And I just said, to heck with that and kind of just lived on sandwiches. I'd go to a restaurant every now and then.

[Assistant] Okay. Was there, I know some of us on the mainland would go eat, um. I mean, we would pay them.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not usually.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] But then I had to use a fair amount, of course, to flush the toilet. And honestly, thank gosh, it usually flushed. It really did. I was, I was lucky on the, in that respect. I didn't have electricity. I didn't have any running water. I didn't have a way to cook. I did buy a kerosene burner with the kerosene bottle. And that kind of blew up and smoked and almost burned. And I just said, to heck with that and kind of just lived on sandwiches. I'd go to a restaurant every now and then.

[Assistant] Okay. Was there, I know some of us on the mainland would go eat, um. I mean, we would pay them.

[User] In homes.

[Assistant] In homes. And they would call it a comedor, C-O-M-E-D- O-R, which was like a dining room. Did they have stuff like that in Coxen Hole?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I had asked my landlady if she would be interested in letting me buy dinner every night or at least five nights a week. And she wasn't interested in that, for whatever reasons. I think, I don't know. She was busy and she just wasn't always home to cook. And we really on that island, we didn't have comedors, we had restaurants.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And people just didn't really do that. They didn't really have people go to their house and eat. So I would just go to a restaurant or I'd make a sandwich. And one of my favorite things was smoked oysters and sardines. I just loved them.

[Assistant] Really?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Like you would buy them at the store?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And people just didn't really do that. They didn't really have people go to their house and eat. So I would just go to a restaurant or I'd make a sandwich. And one of my favorite things was smoked oysters and sardines. I just loved them.

[Assistant] Really?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Like you would buy them at the store?

[User] I would buy them at the store and I would eat them. And there was a man who was of the Baha'i faith who one night in a dream received this wonderful recipe from God for bread. And I'm not kidding. His bread was divine. And so I bought bread from the Baha'i guy every day and I made sandwiches with that. It was delicious bread. I think it just had coconut milk in it.

[Assistant] I wonder, yes, yeah. Cause I.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Like you would buy them at the store?

[User] I would buy them at the store and I would eat them. And there was a man who was of the Baha'i faith who one night in a dream received this wonderful recipe from God for bread. And I'm not kidding. His bread was divine. And so I bought bread from the Baha'i guy every day and I made sandwiches with that. It was delicious bread. I think it just had coconut milk in it.

[Assistant] I wonder, yes, yeah. Cause I.

[User] But it was really good. Yeah. So yeah, that's kind of how I ate.

[Assistant] Since I know that you, living on the island, that people would go there to snorkel, scuba dive, swim, you know. Did you, were you able to do any of these activities on the weekends?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But it was really good. Yeah. So yeah, that's kind of how I ate.

[Assistant] Since I know that you, living on the island, that people would go there to snorkel, scuba dive, swim, you know. Did you, were you able to do any of these activities on the weekends?

[User] I did. I befriended some people who were in other ministries, agriculture, fisheries. And so I became friends with them. So we would snorkel together. I never scuba dived, but I did snorkel and we would swim. And sometimes, you know, other Peace Corps volunteers, of course, you know, go swimming with them. Most of that did not occur in Coxen Hole. That was not a good beach there. It really wasn't a beach as a matter of fact. It was filled with outhouses over the water. So you didn't do that there.

[Assistant] Yeah, okay.

[User] Yeah. I mean that was just.

[Assistant] Outhouses over the water.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I did. I befriended some people who were in other ministries, agriculture, fisheries. And so I became friends with them. So we would snorkel together. I never scuba dived, but I did snorkel and we would swim. And sometimes, you know, other Peace Corps volunteers, of course, you know, go swimming with them. Most of that did not occur in Coxen Hole. That was not a good beach there. It really wasn't a beach as a matter of fact. It was filled with outhouses over the water. So you didn't do that there.

[Assistant] Yeah, okay.

[User] Yeah. I mean that was just.

[Assistant] Outhouses over the water.

[User] Outhouses over the water for as far as you could see. So you did not get in the water there. So you had to go walk to a beach. Of course I had a bicycle, but, uh. Or you would take a busito to the other side of the island where there was a resort.

[Assistant] A busito was a little bus?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Outhouses over the water for as far as you could see. So you did not get in the water there. So you had to go walk to a beach. Of course I had a bicycle, but, uh. Or you would take a busito to the other side of the island where there was a resort.

[Assistant] A busito was a little bus?

[User] It's a little bus, yes. And hopefully it had brakes. I remember several times being on the bus and the fellow driving the bus kept downshifting when we went downhill. I remember one time I was sitting at the front. I said, why do you keep downshifting?

[Assistant] No brakes?

[User] And he said, no hay frenos.

[Assistant] Which, and tell us what no hay frenos means?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And he said, no hay frenos.

[Assistant] Which, and tell us what no hay frenos means?

[User] No brakes.

[Assistant] No brakes.

[User] I'm like, oh well, dios mio. He's not going fast. We'll be fine.

[Assistant] How often do you think you would have Peace Corps volunteers just show up to stay with you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No brakes.

[Assistant] No brakes.

[User] I'm like, oh well, dios mio. He's not going fast. We'll be fine.

[Assistant] How often do you think you would have Peace Corps volunteers just show up to stay with you?

[User] Well, you know, around the holidays, I would have a number of them and then I could go for a couple of months without anyone coming.

[Assistant] Okay. It wasn't like every week?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'm like, oh well, dios mio. He's not going fast. We'll be fine.

[Assistant] How often do you think you would have Peace Corps volunteers just show up to stay with you?

[User] Well, you know, around the holidays, I would have a number of them and then I could go for a couple of months without anyone coming.

[Assistant] Okay. It wasn't like every week?

[User] No, no, no. It was a real hit and miss thing. Yeah.

[Assistant] Okay. Did you, were there dances?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no, no. It was a real hit and miss thing. Yeah.

[Assistant] Okay. Did you, were there dances?

[User] No, no.

[Assistant] Movie theater?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Did you go?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Sometimes. It was, it was, it. Pretty much when you went, the reels usually broke.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] But it was still fun to go. And of course, there were dogs running in and out of the movie theater. There were ladies that were always selling sandwiches out front. You could buy beer inside. And if the movie wasn't good from the balcony, the beer bottles hit the screen.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Sometimes beer came over the side of the balcony.

[Assistant] Yeah, okay. That's really interesting.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But it was still fun to go. And of course, there were dogs running in and out of the movie theater. There were ladies that were always selling sandwiches out front. You could buy beer inside. And if the movie wasn't good from the balcony, the beer bottles hit the screen.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Sometimes beer came over the side of the balcony.

[Assistant] Yeah, okay. That's really interesting.

[User] Yeah, it was. It was.

[Assistant] Yeah. Oh, how about, I know in some communities, church life is important.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Sometimes beer came over the side of the balcony.

[Assistant] Yeah, okay. That's really interesting.

[User] Yeah, it was. It was.

[Assistant] Yeah. Oh, how about, I know in some communities, church life is important.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Was there a church, churches in your town? Did you go? What faiths were there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, it was. It was.

[Assistant] Yeah. Oh, how about, I know in some communities, church life is important.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Was there a church, churches in your town? Did you go? What faiths were there?

[User] There was a Baptist church and, um, I did go initially.

[Assistant] To the Baptist church.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There was a Baptist church and, um, I did go initially.

[Assistant] To the Baptist church.

[User] To the Baptist Church, and they had a piano they let me play there. So they would let me go and play the piano.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] I have to, I have to be honest and say as the two years marched on, I didn't go as often as I did initially. But I did get to know a lot of people in the community by doing that. And I did play for their choir at times.

[Assistant] Oh, did you? Okay.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] To the Baptist Church, and they had a piano they let me play there. So they would let me go and play the piano.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] I have to, I have to be honest and say as the two years marched on, I didn't go as often as I did initially. But I did get to know a lot of people in the community by doing that. And I did play for their choir at times.

[Assistant] Oh, did you? Okay.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Good, good. Did they have other denominations there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I have to, I have to be honest and say as the two years marched on, I didn't go as often as I did initially. But I did get to know a lot of people in the community by doing that. And I did play for their choir at times.

[Assistant] Oh, did you? Okay.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Good, good. Did they have other denominations there?

[User] Not in Coxen Hole. It was just the Baptist Church. Yeah.

[Assistant] Okay, well, let's go on to the ninth question. The end of your first year, can you think back and what notable events transpired? What were your reflections after a year? Then it's going to ask about health problems and stuff like that. So anything that you can think about. Can you remember how your life was after a year in Coxen Hole?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not in Coxen Hole. It was just the Baptist Church. Yeah.

[Assistant] Okay, well, let's go on to the ninth question. The end of your first year, can you think back and what notable events transpired? What were your reflections after a year? Then it's going to ask about health problems and stuff like that. So anything that you can think about. Can you remember how your life was after a year in Coxen Hole?

[User] After a year in Coxen Hole, I was pretty happy. I mean, one thing I was, was I was busy. I was very busy. I mean, I worked every day, sometimes even on Sundays. Sometimes people came to my house.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] So I was busy. I mean, they came to me in the middle of the night if they had an emergency. And which was not very often, I have to admit, that was not very often. But they did. The kids would come. I think the kids just liked peanut butter sandwiches.

[Assistant] That's possible. Okay.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They'd have an itch or they'd have a, they'd have a scratch or something. I had a little girl who lived with her sister and they were obviously so poor and she was so skinny. She had a terrible case of worms and I let her become my maid. And so she would come and sort of sweep the floor. She was so tiny and she wore these huge, huge, like evening gown sort of dresses that she had gotten. The boat would come with donated clothes and she loved beautiful net dresses or ballerina type dresses. And they were, of course, never fit her. She was so tiny. But she would come and clean my house.

[Assistant] Okay, sweet.

[User] And then I would always give her a loaf of bread and maybe some sardines or something. She got some Baha'i bread. And so I was busy. I was really busy. I have to say, even though I was busy and I was friendly with many of the islanders, I was, it was, it was lonely because I was the only American there. I was the only one, you know, there was no one to really share that experience with me that I could directly relate to. So I do remember being, just getting really lonely.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Just getting really, really lonely.

[Assistant] Yeah. Okay. Which I think happens to many of us.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then I would always give her a loaf of bread and maybe some sardines or something. She got some Baha'i bread. And so I was busy. I was really busy. I have to say, even though I was busy and I was friendly with many of the islanders, I was, it was, it was lonely because I was the only American there. I was the only one, you know, there was no one to really share that experience with me that I could directly relate to. So I do remember being, just getting really lonely.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Just getting really, really lonely.

[Assistant] Yeah. Okay. Which I think happens to many of us.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Any unexpected events or relationships that happened around that time, a year into your service?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Just getting really, really lonely.

[Assistant] Yeah. Okay. Which I think happens to many of us.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Any unexpected events or relationships that happened around that time, a year into your service?

[User] Well, no. Later maybe.

[Assistant] Okay. Later. Okay. Health problems?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Any unexpected events or relationships that happened around that time, a year into your service?

[User] Well, no. Later maybe.

[Assistant] Okay. Later. Okay. Health problems?

[User] I was really healthy, unbelievably healthy. As a matter of fact, I used to get a lot of headaches in the two years I was down there. I had brought a huge bottle of aspirin because it's kind of all we had back then. I barely touched it the two years I was there, I was so healthy. I did get amoebas once, but that was easily fixed with some Flagyl.

[Assistant] What did you do about drinking water?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There was no potable water there.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And you could boil it, but it still didn't look very good and there were no filters to filter it with. And it was usually pretty hazy and I just couldn't make myself drink it. And then of course, my stove blew up and I never bought another one.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] So I drank rum and Coke or juice or Coke. Or beer.

[Assistant] No water. So you really didn't drink water?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And you could boil it, but it still didn't look very good and there were no filters to filter it with. And it was usually pretty hazy and I just couldn't make myself drink it. And then of course, my stove blew up and I never bought another one.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] So I drank rum and Coke or juice or Coke. Or beer.

[Assistant] No water. So you really didn't drink water?

[User] I didn't. I, listen, I cannot tell you how much I love water from that experience. Oh my gosh. There's nothing like really good water.

[Assistant] I know. Yes.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I drank rum and Coke or juice or Coke. Or beer.

[Assistant] No water. So you really didn't drink water?

[User] I didn't. I, listen, I cannot tell you how much I love water from that experience. Oh my gosh. There's nothing like really good water.

[Assistant] I know. Yes.

[User] And just not ever having it. And we didn't have bottled water back then either.

[Assistant] Yeah, I know. Yeah. And any travel, did you travel anywhere?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I didn't. I, listen, I cannot tell you how much I love water from that experience. Oh my gosh. There's nothing like really good water.

[Assistant] I know. Yes.

[User] And just not ever having it. And we didn't have bottled water back then either.

[Assistant] Yeah, I know. Yeah. And any travel, did you travel anywhere?

[User] I was on the island quite a bit. Of course I would go periodically to the capital, Tegucigalpa. But in that year, you and I.

[Assistant] Yes, I remember.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was on the island quite a bit. Of course I would go periodically to the capital, Tegucigalpa. But in that year, you and I.

[Assistant] Yes, I remember.

[User] My good friend Barbara here, we took a trip. We were a little over a month. We went through, uh, we went to, we went to the Mayan ruins in northern Honduras and we went through Guatemala. We hit all the hotspots in Guatemala.

[Assistant] By bus.

[User] By bus, and sometimes foot.

[Assistant] And sometimes foot.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] My good friend Barbara here, we took a trip. We were a little over a month. We went through, uh, we went to, we went to the Mayan ruins in northern Honduras and we went through Guatemala. We hit all the hotspots in Guatemala.

[Assistant] By bus.

[User] By bus, and sometimes foot.

[Assistant] And sometimes foot.

[User] And then we came back through El Salvador. And I'll never forget that because we were in this little cheap hotel at night and there was like a gunfight in the street right in front of the hotel. Do you remember that?

[Assistant] No, but I remember staying a night, I think it was the Hotel Bruno, if I remember right.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] By bus, and sometimes foot.

[Assistant] And sometimes foot.

[User] And then we came back through El Salvador. And I'll never forget that because we were in this little cheap hotel at night and there was like a gunfight in the street right in front of the hotel. Do you remember that?

[Assistant] No, but I remember staying a night, I think it was the Hotel Bruno, if I remember right.

[User] You don't remember the gunfight?

[Assistant] I don't. I don't.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then we came back through El Salvador. And I'll never forget that because we were in this little cheap hotel at night and there was like a gunfight in the street right in front of the hotel. Do you remember that?

[Assistant] No, but I remember staying a night, I think it was the Hotel Bruno, if I remember right.

[User] You don't remember the gunfight?

[Assistant] I don't. I don't.

[User] I'll never forget that.

[Assistant] Tell me. Sorry, we're laughing listener. Okay. I don't remember that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You don't remember the gunfight?

[Assistant] I don't. I don't.

[User] I'll never forget that.

[Assistant] Tell me. Sorry, we're laughing listener. Okay. I don't remember that.

[User] Yeah. And then we got on the bus the next day. We went through the northern portion of Nicaragua. You remember that? All those Nicaraguan young students were on the bus with us and they were so articulate. They had read Mein Kampf, they'd read all these political, philosophical books, and I was just so amazed. And there was the, you know, there was a revolution going on then and the guerrilla warfare, and we weren't supposed to go to Nicaragua. We kind of went through just a little bit of it and then we went back up to Honduras. So that was fun.

[Assistant] Yeah. I don't remember that part, but I remember being in El Salvador for a short time. The gunfight, no.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. And then we got on the bus the next day. We went through the northern portion of Nicaragua. You remember that? All those Nicaraguan young students were on the bus with us and they were so articulate. They had read Mein Kampf, they'd read all these political, philosophical books, and I was just so amazed. And there was the, you know, there was a revolution going on then and the guerrilla warfare, and we weren't supposed to go to Nicaragua. We kind of went through just a little bit of it and then we went back up to Honduras. So that was fun.

[Assistant] Yeah. I don't remember that part, but I remember being in El Salvador for a short time. The gunfight, no.

[User] You don't remember the kids on the bus? Talking to them?

[Assistant] No.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] No, I don't.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] No, I don't.

[User] They were like older teenagers. They were young.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And some of them had, their families had sent them away during all the fighting and they were coming back. So yeah.

[Assistant] But you know, we all remember different things.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They were like older teenagers. They were young.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And some of them had, their families had sent them away during all the fighting and they were coming back. So yeah.

[Assistant] But you know, we all remember different things.

[User] We do, don't we? We really do.

[Assistant] Now I know you've got many more stories you could tell. I don't want to finish the interview yet. Can you think of any other stories about your life and Coxen Hole? Because I've heard other stories I'm trying to think of.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And some of them had, their families had sent them away during all the fighting and they were coming back. So yeah.

[Assistant] But you know, we all remember different things.

[User] We do, don't we? We really do.

[Assistant] Now I know you've got many more stories you could tell. I don't want to finish the interview yet. Can you think of any other stories about your life and Coxen Hole? Because I've heard other stories I'm trying to think of.

[User] You mean just things that happened?

[Assistant] Yeah. Okay, more stories about the clinic if we're doing okay with time.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I didn't. I was a med surg nurse, and I didn't have any perinatal experience. I mean, I could teach, but as far as skills for that. I had never delivered a baby in my life nor seen a lot of deliveries. But anyway, I grabbed a medication that I had in the house called Methergine, which helps to contract the uterus and stop bleeding after a birth, and some syringes and some other things. And I didn't have any IVs, I remember, but so I ran down to the house and when I got there there were a few candles on and a kerosene lamp, and there was a 14 year old girl on the floor under newspapers with a baby that was, um, just the legs had been delivered.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And she was, I just, the thing, the main thing I remember about her was she was so stoic. Everyone else was hysterical in the house, but she was so stoic. She wasn't crying. She didn't talk. She was, she was probably petrified.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] But for a young teenage girl, I just, that just really struck me. I just remember how quiet she was. But I put gloves on and I couldn't get the baby out. I couldn't do it. And so I told the kids to go to, down the street. There was a man there who owned the pharmacy and he was known for being able to deliver babies. And I'm not sure why they didn't get him the first time instead of me.

[Assistant] But he was a pharmacist?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He was a pharmacist, but he also had delivered a lot of babies on the island, and they called him Doc Polo because of it.

[Assistant] Polo, P-O-L-O?

[User] P-O-L-O.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And, um, he came and he twisted the baby around. And if I recall correctly, something cracked. And he got the baby out. Of course, it was dead.

[Assistant] By using a lot of force.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And, um, he came and he twisted the baby around. And if I recall correctly, something cracked. And he got the baby out. Of course, it was dead.

[Assistant] By using a lot of force.

[User] Yeah, and he kind of had to. We didn't have a way except airplanes to get to the mainland, and they didn't fly at night.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So he did get the baby out and he did force the placental delivery. He just pulled it out. I remember being petrified that she was going to hemorrhage, but she didn't. And I did give her some Methergine and stayed for a while, cleaned her up. And it was just so, it was just so sad. That's one of the biggest things I remember.

[Assistant] And the baby died of course.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, and he kind of had to. We didn't have a way except airplanes to get to the mainland, and they didn't fly at night.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So he did get the baby out and he did force the placental delivery. He just pulled it out. I remember being petrified that she was going to hemorrhage, but she didn't. And I did give her some Methergine and stayed for a while, cleaned her up. And it was just so, it was just so sad. That's one of the biggest things I remember.

[Assistant] And the baby died of course.

[User] The baby was dead, yeah.

[Assistant] And how did the mother do?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The baby was dead, yeah.

[Assistant] And how did the mother do?

[User] The mother was okay. I was so afraid that she was going to hemorrhage. I was just so afraid that she's going to hemorrhage or have a fever later or. And I told her to come to the clinic the next day and she didn't.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And I had heard that they did get her to the mainland later, is what I had heard. I hope they did, but, uh, anyway.

[Assistant] You know, one thing I was going to ask, were there, was there a hospital on the island?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The mother was okay. I was so afraid that she was going to hemorrhage. I was just so afraid that she's going to hemorrhage or have a fever later or. And I told her to come to the clinic the next day and she didn't.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And I had heard that they did get her to the mainland later, is what I had heard. I hope they did, but, uh, anyway.

[Assistant] You know, one thing I was going to ask, were there, was there a hospital on the island?

[User] No. Just the clinic.

[Assistant] Okay. The one of, the Ministry of Health clinic?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I had heard that they did get her to the mainland later, is what I had heard. I hope they did, but, uh, anyway.

[Assistant] You know, one thing I was going to ask, were there, was there a hospital on the island?

[User] No. Just the clinic.

[Assistant] Okay. The one of, the Ministry of Health clinic?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Any other stories that come to your mind?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. Just the clinic.

[Assistant] Okay. The one of, the Ministry of Health clinic?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Any other stories that come to your mind?

[User] Well, another one was, um, there was a. I was going to the clinic one day and a man walked up to me and his arm was wrapped in a towel and he said, can you fix this? I cut myself. And I opened the towel and he had almost cut his arm off. And I was like, well, no, I can't fix this. And what are we going to do? You know, and I, I actually, I was able to stop some people, and there was a physician who was on sabbatical from the United States.

[Assistant] Did you know that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, another one was, um, there was a. I was going to the clinic one day and a man walked up to me and his arm was wrapped in a towel and he said, can you fix this? I cut myself. And I opened the towel and he had almost cut his arm off. And I was like, well, no, I can't fix this. And what are we going to do? You know, and I, I actually, I was able to stop some people, and there was a physician who was on sabbatical from the United States.

[Assistant] Did you know that?

[User] Yes, I knew him. On the other side of the island at the time. And he had brought supplies and he had things with him. And so, fortunately, I was able to get a truck and get him over to the physician and he was able to at least stabilize him until we got him on a plane and got him to the mainland. And that was so scary. And what was so amazing was how, again, very stoic this fellow was. I mean, I would have been hysterical.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] I mean, he had, it was a machete wound. There were so many machete wounds. And yeah, that was a very bad one also.

[Assistant] And you said almost severed.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, to me, yeah. I doubt it was because, you know, he really wasn't bleeding that badly.

[Assistant] Okay. Okay.

[User] Otherwise, I would have had to have applied a tourniquet. He was not dripping blood. It was bad though.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] It was more of the muscle that was so, that had been cut into. Yeah.

[Assistant] It sounds like you learned a lot. Now, some of your counterparts. I know the doctor left after five months. Sounds like the LVN, the licensed vocational nurse, was a help. You had a good relationship.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Otherwise, I would have had to have applied a tourniquet. He was not dripping blood. It was bad though.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] It was more of the muscle that was so, that had been cut into. Yeah.

[Assistant] It sounds like you learned a lot. Now, some of your counterparts. I know the doctor left after five months. Sounds like the LVN, the licensed vocational nurse, was a help. You had a good relationship.

[User] Yes, she was good. She was good.

[Assistant] The dentist also?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was more of the muscle that was so, that had been cut into. Yeah.

[Assistant] It sounds like you learned a lot. Now, some of your counterparts. I know the doctor left after five months. Sounds like the LVN, the licensed vocational nurse, was a help. You had a good relationship.

[User] Yes, she was good. She was good.

[Assistant] The dentist also?

[User] Yeah, the dentist helped me so much. So much. And she also provided some friendship too. She was a really, you know, she was a very nice, happy, bouncy person. And she was only there six months though.

[Assistant] Oh, she wasn't there the whole time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, she was good. She was good.

[Assistant] The dentist also?

[User] Yeah, the dentist helped me so much. So much. And she also provided some friendship too. She was a really, you know, she was a very nice, happy, bouncy person. And she was only there six months though.

[Assistant] Oh, she wasn't there the whole time?

[User] No, she wasn't there the whole time.

[Assistant] Did a dentist come to replace her?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, the dentist helped me so much. So much. And she also provided some friendship too. She was a really, you know, she was a very nice, happy, bouncy person. And she was only there six months though.

[Assistant] Oh, she wasn't there the whole time?

[User] No, she wasn't there the whole time.

[Assistant] Did a dentist come to replace her?

[User] No, no, no.

[Assistant] Oh, you really were alone.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no, no.

[Assistant] Oh, you really were alone.

[User] Yeah. Thank goodness for the LPN.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] Was your clinics? This is something I just thought of. Was your clinic stocked with some medications for the folks?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] Was your clinics? This is something I just thought of. Was your clinic stocked with some medications for the folks?

[User] Yes. We had penicillin because, um, gonorrhea and syphilis were big problems. And I knew if a man came to the clinic, I knew what he was there for because otherwise they didn't come in.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah.

[User] And, um.

[Assistant] And a vaccine of penicillin, I mean, a vaccine. A shot of penicillin.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. We had penicillin because, um, gonorrhea and syphilis were big problems. And I knew if a man came to the clinic, I knew what he was there for because otherwise they didn't come in.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah.

[User] And, um.

[Assistant] And a vaccine of penicillin, I mean, a vaccine. A shot of penicillin.

[User] One in each hip.

[Assistant] For one of those venereal diseases.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And, um.

[Assistant] And a vaccine of penicillin, I mean, a vaccine. A shot of penicillin.

[User] One in each hip.

[Assistant] For one of those venereal diseases.

[User] Yeah, for those venereal diseases. And we had worm medicine and we had Flagyl for amoebas. And we had, um, we had some.

[Assistant] Aralen for malaria?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, for those venereal diseases. And we had worm medicine and we had Flagyl for amoebas. And we had, um, we had some.

[Assistant] Aralen for malaria?

[User] Yes, yes. Primaquine and chloroquine. We had them. Aralen. I don't think, I don't remember having Aralen. That was a preventative.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But primaquine and chloroquine. And we had some other PO antibiotics. At this time, I don't remember what they were, but we didn't have a lot and we ran out at times too so.

[Assistant] And you mentioned that there was a pharmacist. I mean, he had his own private pharmacy. Doc Polo?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But primaquine and chloroquine. And we had some other PO antibiotics. At this time, I don't remember what they were, but we didn't have a lot and we ran out at times too so.

[Assistant] And you mentioned that there was a pharmacist. I mean, he had his own private pharmacy. Doc Polo?

[User] Doc Polo, yeah. But, but he was not affiliated with the clinic. And at his pharmacy you could buy syringes, antibiotics, IVs, and find someone that could give you a shot of whatever you thought you needed or to give you some IV fluids and.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] I really didn't have people come to me for that. You know, there were other ladies that, there were houses that said, se inyecto aqui.

[Assistant] Tell us what that means, Donna.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Doc Polo, yeah. But, but he was not affiliated with the clinic. And at his pharmacy you could buy syringes, antibiotics, IVs, and find someone that could give you a shot of whatever you thought you needed or to give you some IV fluids and.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] I really didn't have people come to me for that. You know, there were other ladies that, there were houses that said, se inyecto aqui.

[Assistant] Tell us what that means, Donna.

[User] That means "I give shots here."

[Assistant] Yeah. Se inyecto aqui.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I really didn't have people come to me for that. You know, there were other ladies that, there were houses that said, se inyecto aqui.

[Assistant] Tell us what that means, Donna.

[User] That means "I give shots here."

[Assistant] Yeah. Se inyecto aqui.

[User] So. Yeah. But I can't remember anyone even coming to me and asking me at my house. It was always in the clinic setting, to give them like a penicillin shot or.

[Assistant] Yeah. So the kids, the people who came to your house sometimes on Sundays, as you said, were often little kids.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That means "I give shots here."

[Assistant] Yeah. Se inyecto aqui.

[User] So. Yeah. But I can't remember anyone even coming to me and asking me at my house. It was always in the clinic setting, to give them like a penicillin shot or.

[Assistant] Yeah. So the kids, the people who came to your house sometimes on Sundays, as you said, were often little kids.

[User] They were usually kids. They were usually kids. It usually wasn't adults. The adults would come to the clinic on clinic hours, but the kids would just kind of show up and it was kind of fun.

[Assistant] You know, I know that this is not part of the questions, but I remember you telling a story before. Didn't you even have a radio program? Did you? Sorry, listener for just, excuse us while we laugh a little bit. Wasn't there a radio program that you were on?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So. Yeah. But I can't remember anyone even coming to me and asking me at my house. It was always in the clinic setting, to give them like a penicillin shot or.

[Assistant] Yeah. So the kids, the people who came to your house sometimes on Sundays, as you said, were often little kids.

[User] They were usually kids. They were usually kids. It usually wasn't adults. The adults would come to the clinic on clinic hours, but the kids would just kind of show up and it was kind of fun.

[Assistant] You know, I know that this is not part of the questions, but I remember you telling a story before. Didn't you even have a radio program? Did you? Sorry, listener for just, excuse us while we laugh a little bit. Wasn't there a radio program that you were on?

[User] You know, I kind of forgot that. Now that you mention it.

[Assistant] Can you tell us about the radio program?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They were usually kids. They were usually kids. It usually wasn't adults. The adults would come to the clinic on clinic hours, but the kids would just kind of show up and it was kind of fun.

[Assistant] You know, I know that this is not part of the questions, but I remember you telling a story before. Didn't you even have a radio program? Did you? Sorry, listener for just, excuse us while we laugh a little bit. Wasn't there a radio program that you were on?

[User] You know, I kind of forgot that. Now that you mention it.

[Assistant] Can you tell us about the radio program?

[User] Well, let me try to remember what that was.

[Assistant] It was a local station.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, I kind of forgot that. Now that you mention it.

[Assistant] Can you tell us about the radio program?

[User] Well, let me try to remember what that was.

[Assistant] It was a local station.

[User] I think it was health tidbits and just some health teaching. Like I believe I was just doing like little things like this is how you boil water. This is why you do it. This is why you wash your cabbage. And this is, you know.

[Assistant] Did you come up with the topics yourself or did they say, I want you to talk about drinking safe water?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think it was health tidbits and just some health teaching. Like I believe I was just doing like little things like this is how you boil water. This is why you do it. This is why you wash your cabbage. And this is, you know.

[Assistant] Did you come up with the topics yourself or did they say, I want you to talk about drinking safe water?

[User] I don't, I don't recall doing it that many times and I believe I came up with the topics.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah. Do you remember the radio station?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't, I don't recall doing it that many times and I believe I came up with the topics.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah. Do you remember the radio station?

[User] Radio Roatan.

[Assistant] Okay. What does that mean in English?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah. Do you remember the radio station?

[User] Radio Roatan.

[Assistant] Okay. What does that mean in English?

[User] Radio Roatan.

[Assistant] Okay. Radio. I sorry listener, I can't roll my Rs. Radio Roatan. I kind of did that right now.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Radio Roatan.

[Assistant] Okay. What does that mean in English?

[User] Radio Roatan.

[Assistant] Okay. Radio. I sorry listener, I can't roll my Rs. Radio Roatan. I kind of did that right now.

[User] You did great.

[Assistant] Okay. Was there, were there other activities that you did, um, you participated in that come to your mind now in the clinic?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You did great.

[Assistant] Okay. Was there, were there other activities that you did, um, you participated in that come to your mind now in the clinic?

[User] Oh, in the clinic?

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] One thing I did that I really was happy to do. The inside of the clinic needed to be painted so badly. And they, there was no money for it. The, I had written to the ministry to see if they would get someone to paint it and they didn't. The outside and the inside needed it. There was mold on the walls and there was, I mean, it was, it was dirty. It was really dirty. But I was able to go around and collect enough contributions from some of the businesses to buy paint. And there was a son of one of the patients who always kind of needed work. So he came and painted the whole inside of the clinic. We didn't get the outside painted, we've got the inside, and most of it at least. And then myself and two of the young ladies that worked there, we painted a really cute mural in the, on the wall in the waiting room. Yeah, it was a picture of the island with coconut tree and a rainbow.

[Assistant] Say that again?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] One thing I did that I really was happy to do. The inside of the clinic needed to be painted so badly. And they, there was no money for it. The, I had written to the ministry to see if they would get someone to paint it and they didn't. The outside and the inside needed it. There was mold on the walls and there was, I mean, it was, it was dirty. It was really dirty. But I was able to go around and collect enough contributions from some of the businesses to buy paint. And there was a son of one of the patients who always kind of needed work. So he came and painted the whole inside of the clinic. We didn't get the outside painted, we've got the inside, and most of it at least. And then myself and two of the young ladies that worked there, we painted a really cute mural in the, on the wall in the waiting room. Yeah, it was a picture of the island with coconut tree and a rainbow.

[Assistant] Say that again?

[User] It was like, it was like a picture of the island beach, with the coconut trees and then a beautiful rainbow.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User]
Yeah. It was fun.

But as small as that sounds, it was a huge, huge deal, getting people to see the wisdom in making that place look clean. And we cleaned the floors and everything. And to get it painted, it just looked so much better.

[Assistant] Yeah, right. You know, another question I just thought of too. When women were pregnant, who delivered their babies generally?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was like, it was like a picture of the island beach, with the coconut trees and then a beautiful rainbow.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User]
Yeah. It was fun.

But as small as that sounds, it was a huge, huge deal, getting people to see the wisdom in making that place look clean. And we cleaned the floors and everything. And to get it painted, it just looked so much better.

[Assistant] Yeah, right. You know, another question I just thought of too. When women were pregnant, who delivered their babies generally?

[User] Midwives.

[Assistant] Oh, so they had midwives.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Yeah. It was fun.

But as small as that sounds, it was a huge, huge deal, getting people to see the wisdom in making that place look clean. And we cleaned the floors and everything. And to get it painted, it just looked so much better.

[Assistant] Yeah, right. You know, another question I just thought of too. When women were pregnant, who delivered their babies generally?

[User] Midwives.

[Assistant] Oh, so they had midwives.

[User] There were a lot of midwives on the island and they were very good. And then Doc Polo.

[Assistant] Were they trained?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Midwives.

[Assistant] Oh, so they had midwives.

[User] There were a lot of midwives on the island and they were very good. And then Doc Polo.

[Assistant] Were they trained?

[User] They were, they went to the mainland to get some training. They, they weren't nurses. They were just lay midwives, yeah. And then I'm not sure where Doc Polo got his training, but evidently he was pretty good and pretty, he delivered a lot of babies also.

[Assistant] Was he a man from Roatan?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Yes.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And actually, I became really good friends with his daughter, who had married a Canadian, and they had children and they lived not too far from my house. We became really good friends and I hung out with them a whole lot.

[Assistant] Okay, good.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Good. Let's see. Oh. Did you have any other jobs when you were in Roatan besides the clinic job?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And actually, I became really good friends with his daughter, who had married a Canadian, and they had children and they lived not too far from my house. We became really good friends and I hung out with them a whole lot.

[Assistant] Okay, good.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Good. Let's see. Oh. Did you have any other jobs when you were in Roatan besides the clinic job?

[User] Well, that was a really full time job. However, I have to say that after I'd been there about a year and a half, I was really, as I said, very lonely. And I was working really hard too. I mean, I really worked. And there was a little yacht club that opened up not far up the road where.

[Assistant] A Honduran yacht club?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Good. Let's see. Oh. Did you have any other jobs when you were in Roatan besides the clinic job?

[User] Well, that was a really full time job. However, I have to say that after I'd been there about a year and a half, I was really, as I said, very lonely. And I was working really hard too. I mean, I really worked. And there was a little yacht club that opened up not far up the road where.

[Assistant] A Honduran yacht club?

[User] It was Honduran owned.

[Assistant] Oh, it was Honduran owned, okay.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was Honduran owned.

[Assistant] Oh, it was Honduran owned, okay.

[User] But there were some, I think some other foreign investments in it too, but it was run by Hondurans. And so I knew a few of the fellows that were going to work there on the boats. And so I kind of went down there and hung out and I said, gosh, do you know what? I think I'm really sick of doing what I'm doing, so I'm going to have to quit the Peace Corps now.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And so they gave me a job at the yacht club.

[Assistant] Oh, what did you do?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Hostess.

[Assistant] Hostess, okay.

[User] I was going to be the hostess.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] So I sent the ministry of, I mean, I sent Ione, who was.

[Assistant] Our program manager.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was going to be the hostess.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] So I sent the ministry of, I mean, I sent Ione, who was.

[Assistant] Our program manager.

[User] Health program manager, a telegram. Everything was telegrams back then. And told her that I just couldn't continue in the Peace Corps. It was just, I was too lonely and I thought I would be less lonely working at the yacht club, I suppose. And so I sent her the telegram. I didn't hear back from her, and I started working at the yacht club. And as I was telling Barbara earlier.

[Assistant] And you didn't show up for work at the clinic then?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. I just, I think I gave them a week's notice or so.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] But actually the LVN took over.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] So now she didn't know how to suture, but she could do a lot of things. But so I was working in the yacht club and it just hit me like a ton of bricks that that probably wasn't my cup of tea.

[Assistant] May I ask why?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So now she didn't know how to suture, but she could do a lot of things. But so I was working in the yacht club and it just hit me like a ton of bricks that that probably wasn't my cup of tea.

[Assistant] May I ask why?

[User] There was, well, there were mainly Americans that were coming down to rent the yachts and sail. And I literally all I heard was complaining, like the lemons weren't fresh enough or they needed more limes or it was hot or the bed was uncomfortable. It was just, I just said, what am I doing?

[Assistant] Yes. Okay.

[User] So I telegram Ione back within like a week and a half, two weeks, something like that. And I said, you know what, I'm not going to quit the Peace Corps. And she telegrammed me back and said, oh, I was just waiting for that. I knew that you would come around and you had your little vacation.

[Assistant] She did say that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. You had your vacation. And I said, yeah. I said, and I, and I think probably at that time I just needed a real vacation. I mean, we all do.

[Assistant] Oh yes.

[User] We all need breaks, and the loneliness was the hardest part of being in the Peace Corps. Even though I was around people that spoke English, it was still. It's hard to explain, but it was just I wasn't around my peer group.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And I really missed that.

[Assistant] Yeah. When you had the Peace Corps volunteers come to stay with you, was that a big boost?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It would help, but it would just only be for a day or two. And they were gone most of the time snorkeling while I was at the clinic.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] You know, and I was very fastidious about the fact that I had a job and I couldn't just not show up.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Because the clinic would be full of people with worms and amoebas and venereal.

[Assistant] Venereal disease, yeah, okay.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, and I was very fastidious about the fact that I had a job and I couldn't just not show up.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Because the clinic would be full of people with worms and amoebas and venereal.

[Assistant] Venereal disease, yeah, okay.

[User] And I probably didn't take as many breaks as I needed to. I felt just that they didn't have a doctor, so I needed to stay. And I remember Ione visited me and she said, you're taking this a little too seriously. You need more breaks, you need to take care of yourself too. And I knew, and I knew that, but I guess I needed someone to say the world is not going to fall apart if there's no one to take care of these patients this day, as long as it's not emergencies. And besides that, we didn't have a hospital. We didn't have an ER. You know, I just did the best I could so.

[Assistant] I think it's amazing.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I probably didn't take as many breaks as I needed to. I felt just that they didn't have a doctor, so I needed to stay. And I remember Ione visited me and she said, you're taking this a little too seriously. You need more breaks, you need to take care of yourself too. And I knew, and I knew that, but I guess I needed someone to say the world is not going to fall apart if there's no one to take care of these patients this day, as long as it's not emergencies. And besides that, we didn't have a hospital. We didn't have an ER. You know, I just did the best I could so.

[Assistant] I think it's amazing.

[User] Yeah. So, yeah, I had a little, uh.

[Assistant] Break.

[User] Detour. A little detour in the yacht club. I have to say, it was kind of fun sailing on the yachts because I could sail on the yachts as much as I wanted.

[Assistant] Okay. Oh, you have a wonderful collection of stories. I'd encourage you to write a book about this.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, okay.

[Assistant] Yes, just.

[User] I'll get right on that.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Before I, you're going to have to really be the one to the impetus to help me remember these stories so.

[Assistant] Okay, um. I just have a few more questions, but if you, um, are you doing okay?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'll get right on that.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Before I, you're going to have to really be the one to the impetus to help me remember these stories so.

[Assistant] Okay, um. I just have a few more questions, but if you, um, are you doing okay?

[User] Uh huh.

[Assistant] Okay. The end of your tour, okay. You went home, you said July of 1980. So including training, you were there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh huh.

[Assistant] Okay. The end of your tour, okay. You went home, you said July of 1980. So including training, you were there?

[User] Two years and a month, yeah.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Because they had the option for leaving a couple of months early and still being given completion of service.

[Assistant] Right. Yeah. Why did you decide to leave maybe a little bit early?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Two years and a month, yeah.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Because they had the option for leaving a couple of months early and still being given completion of service.

[Assistant] Right. Yeah. Why did you decide to leave maybe a little bit early?

[User] Enough was enough.

[Assistant] Enough was enough.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Because they had the option for leaving a couple of months early and still being given completion of service.

[Assistant] Right. Yeah. Why did you decide to leave maybe a little bit early?

[User] Enough was enough.

[Assistant] Enough was enough.

[User] Enough was enough.

[Assistant] Okay. Yeah. Okay.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I was pretty emotionally drained after the end of that too. I mean, I really worked hard also.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] I loved what I did and I learned a lot. And I, and I will say this, I have never laughed as much in my life as I did the two years I was there. It was just, people just said exactly what they thought in a very funny way.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] People did. There was nothing politically correct about anyone there. I mean, it was just. It was just, it was, it was a non-stop comedy really. We had, for example, the suicide dog, the village suicide dog. Evidently.

[Assistant] I don't. That sounds interesting. Can you tell us about that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not like, uh, it was odd.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And I'll never forget. And actually, I have a picture of you with me walking in a parade during one of the elections that we had down there.

[Assistant] In Roatan?

[User] Yes, I'm pretty, I'll have to show you the picture. But we had an election and I'll never forget it. You had to vote or you were to get arrested. Remember? It was mandatory.

[Assistant] To vote, or otherwise you'd get arrested. I kind of forgot that myself.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I'll never forget there were busses picking people up to vote. I remember I was downtown watching the busses pass by. So you'd see a bus go by with people on it that I knew, and they would give them chicken and beer and everything in the bus, and then they'd vote. And then a little bit later you'd see them on another bus voting again, going to vote again.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Or trying to vote again, getting more chicken and beer.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And we had a parade. And I remember Bruno, the town drunk, was in front of the parade.

[Assistant] He was the leader.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Or trying to vote again, getting more chicken and beer.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And we had a parade. And I remember Bruno, the town drunk, was in front of the parade.

[Assistant] He was the leader.

[User] With the banner of that party. I forget the name of the party.

[Assistant] Yeah. Liberales, I think.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And we had a parade. And I remember Bruno, the town drunk, was in front of the parade.

[Assistant] He was the leader.

[User] With the banner of that party. I forget the name of the party.

[Assistant] Yeah. Liberales, I think.

[User] Probably, yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah. And I forgot the other one.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] With the banner of that party. I forget the name of the party.

[Assistant] Yeah. Liberales, I think.

[User] Probably, yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah. And I forgot the other one.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Nacionales? I'm not sure.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I worked up until three weeks before she was born. When it got to that point, we called the computers over with the machines. There was a big computers office; two of them, in fact, in 7 X 10 [Building]. They called special ones to come over with their machines, so I didn’t do the final thing. By that time I knew that it was true, because I had tested everything coming down.

[Assistant] This was still working on the sound barrier?

[User] As far as I knew.

[Assistant] Did you know a lot? Did they tell you a lot about what they were working on?

[User] No, they didn’t.

[Assistant] They just gave you the equations?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, that was entirely yours. When the engineer that you worked for gave it to you, that was yours.

[Assistant] That was a lot of work.

[User] You knew those equations. I felt sorry for one older woman that was in there, because she would ask me things. She was real nice, but she—I had forgotten about her—but she didn’t have the equations at her fingertips the way, when you first come out of college, you were really fresh. I had a good college education too, plus I’d had three years of physics, even physics problems. Those physics problems did help me too, with that background.

[Assistant] When you went to work there, did you have plans to stay for awhile, until you met Hal?

[User] I came because it was a job, and I didn’t want to go to Dahlgren. I’d heard about that; a friend of mine went to Dahlgren. I guess there were about 15 or 20 math majors. There were only two others I was friends of; one went to Dahlgren and the other was Mary Houbolt. It was a strange mixture of us. Some of them came up here too, and we were never friends, even up here. I could speak to them, but they weren’t the same type. It was a really wonderful background to come in on, because they had prepared you for facing almost anything that could be thrown at you. Let’s see, what are some more questions on here?

[Assistant]
Do you have some more, Sandra ?

It’s interesting, because it was an interesting time when you started working there. As you said, it was after the war, but it was also a time when a lot of women, when they went into the workforce, if they got married, or if they had children, they weren’t allowed to work anymore.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You knew those equations. I felt sorry for one older woman that was in there, because she would ask me things. She was real nice, but she—I had forgotten about her—but she didn’t have the equations at her fingertips the way, when you first come out of college, you were really fresh. I had a good college education too, plus I’d had three years of physics, even physics problems. Those physics problems did help me too, with that background.

[Assistant] When you went to work there, did you have plans to stay for awhile, until you met Hal?

[User] I came because it was a job, and I didn’t want to go to Dahlgren. I’d heard about that; a friend of mine went to Dahlgren. I guess there were about 15 or 20 math majors. There were only two others I was friends of; one went to Dahlgren and the other was Mary Houbolt. It was a strange mixture of us. Some of them came up here too, and we were never friends, even up here. I could speak to them, but they weren’t the same type. It was a really wonderful background to come in on, because they had prepared you for facing almost anything that could be thrown at you. Let’s see, what are some more questions on here?

[Assistant]
Do you have some more, Sandra ?

It’s interesting, because it was an interesting time when you started working there. As you said, it was after the war, but it was also a time when a lot of women, when they went into the workforce, if they got married, or if they had children, they weren’t allowed to work anymore.

[User] That’s what I wanted to tell you.

[Assistant] Okay, I’m glad I thought of it.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It would take a job from a man, and a man was head of the household. Hal and I were married, by the way, for 64 years.

[Assistant] That’s amazing.

[User] It was, because he was—in three more months it would’ve been 64 years when he died. In three more months, he would’ve been 90. The years passed, and we had good years. There’s some tough times you go through sometimes, but there again we had a good life. And this was a wonderful area to raise children in, because it was so safe, and it was so protected. They could ride their bike up to the country club. There was swimming, and the Riverside school was here and it was one of the best. Then after sixth grade we sent them to private school, because they told us there that we didn’t have a choice with our daughter. She was so smart; she really needed to go there. She was accepted immediately by Middlebury [College, Vermont], and then also by Virginia College too. She met her husband at Middlebury, so that was her destiny.

[Assistant] Did you work after you left NACA?

[User] No, no. I was so busy with trying to keep the house together while he was building around us. All these cabinets, everything—the beams, all. He did, and he was about 6’1”, but he was wiry, and he was strong. He would lift things like that, but his mathematical sense was absolutely unbelievable. It got to be, in later years, that he would say to me, “You were a math major?” It was just funny, because when you get out, it doesn’t take long for it to leave you.

[Assistant] You mentioned it’s a language, and it’s like learning a language, and you’re away from it, you forget it.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was, because he was—in three more months it would’ve been 64 years when he died. In three more months, he would’ve been 90. The years passed, and we had good years. There’s some tough times you go through sometimes, but there again we had a good life. And this was a wonderful area to raise children in, because it was so safe, and it was so protected. They could ride their bike up to the country club. There was swimming, and the Riverside school was here and it was one of the best. Then after sixth grade we sent them to private school, because they told us there that we didn’t have a choice with our daughter. She was so smart; she really needed to go there. She was accepted immediately by Middlebury [College, Vermont], and then also by Virginia College too. She met her husband at Middlebury, so that was her destiny.

[Assistant] Did you work after you left NACA?

[User] No, no. I was so busy with trying to keep the house together while he was building around us. All these cabinets, everything—the beams, all. He did, and he was about 6’1”, but he was wiry, and he was strong. He would lift things like that, but his mathematical sense was absolutely unbelievable. It got to be, in later years, that he would say to me, “You were a math major?” It was just funny, because when you get out, it doesn’t take long for it to leave you.

[Assistant] You mentioned it’s a language, and it’s like learning a language, and you’re away from it, you forget it.

[User] Yes, you do. Are there other things? Let’s see, Pearl Harbor had happened when I was in high school. I remember that, so all this had happened. What are some of the things here? I’m sorry; I’ve been so jumping around.

[Assistant] No, you gave great information.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no. I was so busy with trying to keep the house together while he was building around us. All these cabinets, everything—the beams, all. He did, and he was about 6’1”, but he was wiry, and he was strong. He would lift things like that, but his mathematical sense was absolutely unbelievable. It got to be, in later years, that he would say to me, “You were a math major?” It was just funny, because when you get out, it doesn’t take long for it to leave you.

[Assistant] You mentioned it’s a language, and it’s like learning a language, and you’re away from it, you forget it.

[User] Yes, you do. Are there other things? Let’s see, Pearl Harbor had happened when I was in high school. I remember that, so all this had happened. What are some of the things here? I’m sorry; I’ve been so jumping around.

[Assistant] No, you gave great information.

[User] There are so many things intertwined with each other that it was hard to separate them out.\n\n It was a good place to come to work, and my father was just thrilled.

[Assistant] Did you get to see them much once you came up here? Did you get to go home?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, you do. Are there other things? Let’s see, Pearl Harbor had happened when I was in high school. I remember that, so all this had happened. What are some of the things here? I’m sorry; I’ve been so jumping around.

[Assistant] No, you gave great information.

[User] There are so many things intertwined with each other that it was hard to separate them out.\n\n It was a good place to come to work, and my father was just thrilled.

[Assistant] Did you get to see them much once you came up here? Did you get to go home?

[User] No, because you didn’t travel as much. There again, I could—after Hal and I were married, he’d take us down and we’d maybe stay for a couple of weeks. Then they would come up here sometimes. You didn’t travel and talk on the phone then like you do now.

[Assistant] No, being so connected.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There are so many things intertwined with each other that it was hard to separate them out.\n\n It was a good place to come to work, and my father was just thrilled.

[Assistant] Did you get to see them much once you came up here? Did you get to go home?

[User] No, because you didn’t travel as much. There again, I could—after Hal and I were married, he’d take us down and we’d maybe stay for a couple of weeks. Then they would come up here sometimes. You didn’t travel and talk on the phone then like you do now.

[Assistant] No, being so connected.

[User] During the war, I would have to ride the bus home from Greensboro. Had to go to Concord because of gas rationing. I was lucky to run into Hal, because that was a strange thing—I’d never had anything like that happen. It happened right away; I clicked with him too. But when I tell the story, he’d say, “See? I didn’t have a chance?”

[Assistant] You mathematically figured it out.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, because you didn’t travel as much. There again, I could—after Hal and I were married, he’d take us down and we’d maybe stay for a couple of weeks. Then they would come up here sometimes. You didn’t travel and talk on the phone then like you do now.

[Assistant] No, being so connected.

[User] During the war, I would have to ride the bus home from Greensboro. Had to go to Concord because of gas rationing. I was lucky to run into Hal, because that was a strange thing—I’d never had anything like that happen. It happened right away; I clicked with him too. But when I tell the story, he’d say, “See? I didn’t have a chance?”

[Assistant] You mathematically figured it out.

[User] Yes, I already had it all figured out, had him roped in.

[Assistant] I was thinking when the sound barrier finally was broken; you must’ve felt some pride knowing you had something to do with that. Even way back when.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] During the war, I would have to ride the bus home from Greensboro. Had to go to Concord because of gas rationing. I was lucky to run into Hal, because that was a strange thing—I’d never had anything like that happen. It happened right away; I clicked with him too. But when I tell the story, he’d say, “See? I didn’t have a chance?”

[Assistant] You mathematically figured it out.

[User] Yes, I already had it all figured out, had him roped in.

[Assistant] I was thinking when the sound barrier finally was broken; you must’ve felt some pride knowing you had something to do with that. Even way back when.

[User] I did. Of course, Gloria’s husband was the top test pilot [Robert A. Champine]. We didn’t like test pilots, and you know what? When the astronauts came and we had them here, we thought they were all crazy. I had astronauts in my living room and never got a signature or anything. We didn’t have any idea that they were going to the Moon. The children say—David’s the young one, the youngest one—and he said, “You mean I sat on John Glenn’s lap and you didn’t get a picture?”

[Assistant] A picture or anything?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I already had it all figured out, had him roped in.

[Assistant] I was thinking when the sound barrier finally was broken; you must’ve felt some pride knowing you had something to do with that. Even way back when.

[User] I did. Of course, Gloria’s husband was the top test pilot [Robert A. Champine]. We didn’t like test pilots, and you know what? When the astronauts came and we had them here, we thought they were all crazy. I had astronauts in my living room and never got a signature or anything. We didn’t have any idea that they were going to the Moon. The children say—David’s the young one, the youngest one—and he said, “You mean I sat on John Glenn’s lap and you didn’t get a picture?”

[Assistant] A picture or anything?

[User] See, we were friends of the couple that were kind of in charge of them. They would have parties. Then all of a sudden, everybody was whisked off because of the President at that time, whisked off to Texas. Good friends left, and in fact some of our best friends ended up down there. It was David’s godparents, and it’s hard to keep up. And by that time, Hal was not with NACA so we didn’t go to the parties and things. In fact, now when they have the reunions we didn’t go.

[Assistant] I was curious about your interest in sailing. Did your husband sail much or do much with Bob [Robert R.] Gilruth?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was a busy time, but I’m sorry—I had it worked out more in my mind, but when you start telling it—

[Assistant] No, I think it’s there. Then when you get the transcript, if there are things that you think of, you can pencil it in and we can always add.

[User] I know one time I saw Ken Margolis out in the yard, so I stopped. I was so glad to see him. I said, “I want to tell you Ken,” I said, “My daughter married a Jewish husband. He’s a doctor,” and I said, “I just love him. He is wonderful.”\n\n He said, “My son married a Gentile girl, and I can’t stand her.”

[Assistant] It’s funny how life all works out, doesn’t it?

[User] Yes, it is, but that whole section of stability analysis was Jewish. They were smart guys. Leonard Sternfield was just the sweetest guy, and nice-looking guy. He had a child who ended up a very outstanding pianist, I understand. He would start shaving on Friday early, because he always left before sundown. He kept up with the time. He would have that already prepared and ready to leave, and that was something that you’d admire him for, because he was just a really genuinely nice person. These other two were just crude.

[Assistant] It’s amazing how many things you learn about people by just working with them, and being with them every day.