workspace stringclasses 1
value | channel stringclasses 1
value | sentences stringlengths 1 3.93k | ts stringlengths 26 26 | user stringlengths 2 11 | sentence_id stringlengths 44 53 | timestamp float64 1.5B 1.56B | __index_level_0__ int64 0 106k |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
pythondev | help | like you wanted to reinstall it | 2019-01-26T12:59:00.626700 | Ashley | pythondev_help_Ashley_2019-01-26T12:59:00.626700 | 1,548,507,540.6267 | 4,421 |
pythondev | help | it should be something like "Installation repair/diagnostic" or something | 2019-01-26T12:59:31.627200 | Ashley | pythondev_help_Ashley_2019-01-26T12:59:31.627200 | 1,548,507,571.6272 | 4,422 |
pythondev | help | aha ok, thnx | 2019-01-26T13:01:20.627600 | Janessa | pythondev_help_Janessa_2019-01-26T13:01:20.627600 | 1,548,507,680.6276 | 4,423 |
pythondev | help | np | 2019-01-26T13:02:04.627800 | Ashley | pythondev_help_Ashley_2019-01-26T13:02:04.627800 | 1,548,507,724.6278 | 4,424 |
pythondev | help | There was decorator for adding a function that is not a method to a class, what was it | 2019-01-26T14:02:12.629000 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T14:02:12.629000 | 1,548,511,332.629 | 4,425 |
pythondev | help | I think you might be thinking of monkey-patching | 2019-01-26T14:03:10.629300 | Hiroko | pythondev_help_Hiroko_2019-01-26T14:03:10.629300 | 1,548,511,390.6293 | 4,426 |
pythondev | help | `@staticmethod`? | 2019-01-26T14:03:21.629700 | Sasha | pythondev_help_Sasha_2019-01-26T14:03:21.629700 | 1,548,511,401.6297 | 4,427 |
pythondev | help | I wouldn't worry about that for now | 2019-01-26T14:03:23.629800 | Ashley | pythondev_help_Ashley_2019-01-26T14:03:23.629800 | 1,548,511,403.6298 | 4,428 |
pythondev | help | Try to keep the functions in a class related to the state of the object | 2019-01-26T14:03:39.630300 | Ashley | pythondev_help_Ashley_2019-01-26T14:03:39.630300 | 1,548,511,419.6303 | 4,429 |
pythondev | help | <@Thomasina> thats it | 2019-01-26T14:04:00.631100 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T14:04:00.631100 | 1,548,511,440.6311 | 4,430 |
pythondev | help | If they don't use `self`, then it probably doesn't need to be a function for that class | 2019-01-26T14:04:02.631300 | Ashley | pythondev_help_Ashley_2019-01-26T14:04:02.631300 | 1,548,511,442.6313 | 4,431 |
pythondev | help | I like `@staticmethod` for db models for entity utility functions. They don't use `self`, but produce instances that do. :upside_down_face: | 2019-01-26T14:31:37.636000 | Somer | pythondev_help_Somer_2019-01-26T14:31:37.636000 | 1,548,513,097.636 | 4,432 |
pythondev | help | is using **kwargs in function arguments considered evil? | 2019-01-26T14:57:46.637400 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T14:57:46.637400 | 1,548,514,666.6374 | 4,433 |
pythondev | help | Depends on how you use it. Passing arguments from a child class to a superclass, for instance, is pretty standard. | 2019-01-26T15:01:18.638500 | Sasha | pythondev_help_Sasha_2019-01-26T15:01:18.638500 | 1,548,514,878.6385 | 4,434 |
pythondev | help | no, from one func to another | 2019-01-26T15:01:39.638900 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T15:01:39.638900 | 1,548,514,899.6389 | 4,435 |
pythondev | help | Again, depends. Sometimes it's an elegant simplification, other times it's an obscure hack, heh heh. | 2019-01-26T15:05:23.639800 | Sasha | pythondev_help_Sasha_2019-01-26T15:05:23.639800 | 1,548,515,123.6398 | 4,436 |
pythondev | help | its just that the number of parameters is so large | 2019-01-26T15:05:37.640100 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T15:05:37.640100 | 1,548,515,137.6401 | 4,437 |
pythondev | help | an if i change it in one function i need to change it in the other as well | 2019-01-26T15:05:49.640500 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T15:05:49.640500 | 1,548,515,149.6405 | 4,438 |
pythondev | help | very error probe | 2019-01-26T15:05:59.640800 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T15:05:59.640800 | 1,548,515,159.6408 | 4,439 |
pythondev | help | prone | 2019-01-26T15:06:01.641000 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T15:06:01.641000 | 1,548,515,161.641 | 4,440 |
pythondev | help | A large number of parameters that's common across functions is often a sign that you should be putting them together into a class that holds the parameter information. | 2019-01-26T15:07:09.641800 | Sasha | pythondev_help_Sasha_2019-01-26T15:07:09.641800 | 1,548,515,229.6418 | 4,441 |
pythondev | help | that's what i was worried about :smile: | 2019-01-26T15:07:43.642100 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T15:07:43.642100 | 1,548,515,263.6421 | 4,442 |
pythondev | help | Or possibly make a simple compound object that holds the parameters together, like a dataclass / named tuple. | 2019-01-26T15:09:40.643100 | Sasha | pythondev_help_Sasha_2019-01-26T15:09:40.643100 | 1,548,515,380.6431 | 4,443 |
pythondev | help | New in version 3.7 :slightly_smiling_face: | 2019-01-26T15:21:43.643300 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T15:21:43.643300 | 1,548,516,103.6433 | 4,444 |
pythondev | help | If I have a multiline f-string like
```
f"""
j = {self.j} ! resulting j of ph-pairs
parity = {self.parity} ! parity of ph-pairs 1:+ 0:-"""
``` | 2019-01-26T16:03:10.644100 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T16:03:10.644100 | 1,548,518,590.6441 | 4,445 |
pythondev | help | How can I align the string on the ! | 2019-01-26T16:03:36.644400 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T16:03:36.644400 | 1,548,518,616.6444 | 4,446 |
pythondev | help | Not knowing how many characters self.j or self.parity will have | 2019-01-26T16:04:03.645000 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T16:04:03.645000 | 1,548,518,643.645 | 4,447 |
pythondev | help | Use `\t`, and don't use huge f-strings like that | 2019-01-26T16:04:57.645400 | Jonas | pythondev_help_Jonas_2019-01-26T16:04:57.645400 | 1,548,518,697.6454 | 4,448 |
pythondev | help | Why not | 2019-01-26T16:05:05.645600 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T16:05:05.645600 | 1,548,518,705.6456 | 4,449 |
pythondev | help | It's actually much longer, like a page | 2019-01-26T16:05:29.645900 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T16:05:29.645900 | 1,548,518,729.6459 | 4,450 |
pythondev | help | It's a input file that I write to disk | 2019-01-26T16:05:44.646300 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T16:05:44.646300 | 1,548,518,744.6463 | 4,451 |
pythondev | help | and all the rows are in the same format? | 2019-01-26T16:06:10.646700 | Jonas | pythondev_help_Jonas_2019-01-26T16:06:10.646700 | 1,548,518,770.6467 | 4,452 |
pythondev | help | var = something ! comment | 2019-01-26T16:06:45.647200 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T16:06:45.647200 | 1,548,518,805.6472 | 4,453 |
pythondev | help | yes | 2019-01-26T16:06:46.647400 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T16:06:46.647400 | 1,548,518,806.6474 | 4,454 |
pythondev | help | `"\n".join(f'{key} = {value} !{comment}' for key, value, comment in list_of_things)` | 2019-01-26T16:07:23.648200 | Jonas | pythondev_help_Jonas_2019-01-26T16:07:23.648200 | 1,548,518,843.6482 | 4,455 |
pythondev | help | f strings (and multi-line strings) are not a templating language, if you've got a huge "page long" string | 2019-01-26T16:07:54.649100 | Jonas | pythondev_help_Jonas_2019-01-26T16:07:54.649100 | 1,548,518,874.6491 | 4,456 |
pythondev | help | I'd look at something else | 2019-01-26T16:08:03.649500 | Jonas | pythondev_help_Jonas_2019-01-26T16:08:03.649500 | 1,548,518,883.6495 | 4,457 |
pythondev | help | Or use a template language | 2019-01-26T16:08:03.649600 | Hiroko | pythondev_help_Hiroko_2019-01-26T16:08:03.649600 | 1,548,518,883.6496 | 4,458 |
pythondev | help | <https://wiki.python.org/moin/Templating> | 2019-01-26T16:08:07.649800 | Hiroko | pythondev_help_Hiroko_2019-01-26T16:08:07.649800 | 1,548,518,887.6498 | 4,459 |
pythondev | help | What's the drawback on long f-strings? | 2019-01-26T16:08:20.650100 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T16:08:20.650100 | 1,548,518,900.6501 | 4,460 |
pythondev | help | It's like a template with no grammar and no dependencies | 2019-01-26T16:08:33.650600 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T16:08:33.650600 | 1,548,518,913.6506 | 4,461 |
pythondev | help | it's hard to read, looks terrible, impossible to extend when you need it, and anyone who looks at this will go 'wtf' | 2019-01-26T16:09:19.651400 | Jonas | pythondev_help_Jonas_2019-01-26T16:09:19.651400 | 1,548,518,959.6514 | 4,462 |
pythondev | help | :smile: | 2019-01-26T16:09:28.651600 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T16:09:28.651600 | 1,548,518,968.6516 | 4,463 |
pythondev | help | :smile: but yeah like a couple of lines long is stretching it. you also run into alignment issues at the start | 2019-01-26T16:10:01.652200 | Jonas | pythondev_help_Jonas_2019-01-26T16:10:01.652200 | 1,548,519,001.6522 | 4,464 |
pythondev | help | and will have to dedent the first characters of each line. Looks horrible | 2019-01-26T16:10:20.652800 | Jonas | pythondev_help_Jonas_2019-01-26T16:10:20.652800 | 1,548,519,020.6528 | 4,465 |
pythondev | help | I'm using
```
def trim(docstring):
if not docstring:
return ''
# Convert tabs to spaces (following the normal Python rules)
# and split into a list of lines:
lines = docstring.expandtabs().splitlines()
# Determine minimum indentation (first line doesn't count):
indent = float("inf")
... | 2019-01-26T16:10:49.653200 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T16:10:49.653200 | 1,548,519,049.6532 | 4,466 |
pythondev | help | for that | 2019-01-26T16:10:55.653400 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T16:10:55.653400 | 1,548,519,055.6534 | 4,467 |
pythondev | help | imagine a world | 2019-01-26T16:11:02.653700 | Jonas | pythondev_help_Jonas_2019-01-26T16:11:02.653700 | 1,548,519,062.6537 | 4,468 |
pythondev | help | where you didn't have to do that :joy: | 2019-01-26T16:11:06.653900 | Jonas | pythondev_help_Jonas_2019-01-26T16:11:06.653900 | 1,548,519,066.6539 | 4,469 |
pythondev | help | hahaha | 2019-01-26T16:11:15.654200 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T16:11:15.654200 | 1,548,519,075.6542 | 4,470 |
pythondev | help | oh boy. <http://jinja.pocoo.org/docs/2.10/> plz | 2019-01-26T16:11:24.655000 | Jonas | pythondev_help_Jonas_2019-01-26T16:11:24.655000 | 1,548,519,084.655 | 4,471 |
pythondev | help | or the comprehension above | 2019-01-26T16:11:31.655400 | Jonas | pythondev_help_Jonas_2019-01-26T16:11:31.655400 | 1,548,519,091.6554 | 4,472 |
pythondev | help | i feel you're gonna tell me that world exists | 2019-01-26T16:11:36.655700 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T16:11:36.655700 | 1,548,519,096.6557 | 4,473 |
pythondev | help | Template engine | 2019-01-26T16:11:45.656100 | Hiroko | pythondev_help_Hiroko_2019-01-26T16:11:45.656100 | 1,548,519,105.6561 | 4,474 |
pythondev | help | Jinja2 | 2019-01-26T16:11:51.656400 | Hiroko | pythondev_help_Hiroko_2019-01-26T16:11:51.656400 | 1,548,519,111.6564 | 4,475 |
pythondev | help | but i never used it.. | 2019-01-26T16:12:00.656800 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T16:12:00.656800 | 1,548,519,120.6568 | 4,476 |
pythondev | help | it will take ages to set up | 2019-01-26T16:12:06.657300 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T16:12:06.657300 | 1,548,519,126.6573 | 4,477 |
pythondev | help | The string-format functions can take a field width, like `f"{value:<10}"` to left-justify into 10 characters. So you can get column alignment within some range like that. | 2019-01-26T16:12:10.657600 | Sasha | pythondev_help_Sasha_2019-01-26T16:12:10.657600 | 1,548,519,130.6576 | 4,478 |
pythondev | help | Ages? No. | 2019-01-26T16:12:24.658200 | Hiroko | pythondev_help_Hiroko_2019-01-26T16:12:24.658200 | 1,548,519,144.6582 | 4,479 |
pythondev | help | how do you know it will if you've never used it? :thinking_face: | 2019-01-26T16:12:39.658900 | Jonas | pythondev_help_Jonas_2019-01-26T16:12:39.658900 | 1,548,519,159.6589 | 4,480 |
pythondev | help | What's your goal with this? Is it a one off, to be forgotten when complete? Or is it to be worked on and maintained or extended? | 2019-01-26T16:13:02.660300 | Hiroko | pythondev_help_Hiroko_2019-01-26T16:13:02.660300 | 1,548,519,182.6603 | 4,481 |
pythondev | help | the time it took you to write the trim() method | 2019-01-26T16:13:10.660500 | Jonas | pythondev_help_Jonas_2019-01-26T16:13:10.660500 | 1,548,519,190.6605 | 4,482 |
pythondev | help | All I have is this
```
text_to write_to_file = f"""
j = {self.j} ! resulting j of ph-pairs
parity = {self.parity} ! parity of ph-pairs 1:+ 0:-
ediffmaxu = 200.0 ! maximal excitation-energy particles
ediffmaxd ... | 2019-01-26T16:13:18.661100 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T16:13:18.661100 | 1,548,519,198.6611 | 4,483 |
pythondev | help | I would argue that applying good practices to either is a time saver | 2019-01-26T16:13:29.661600 | Hiroko | pythondev_help_Hiroko_2019-01-26T16:13:29.661600 | 1,548,519,209.6616 | 4,484 |
pythondev | help | Using the right tool for the right job | 2019-01-26T16:13:38.662000 | Hiroko | pythondev_help_Hiroko_2019-01-26T16:13:38.662000 | 1,548,519,218.662 | 4,485 |
pythondev | help | So I generate this and write it to file, that's all. | 2019-01-26T16:14:01.662900 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T16:14:01.662900 | 1,548,519,241.6629 | 4,486 |
pythondev | help | Right now, your existing solution is a significant code smell | 2019-01-26T16:14:06.663000 | Hiroko | pythondev_help_Hiroko_2019-01-26T16:14:06.663000 | 1,548,519,246.663 | 4,487 |
pythondev | help | But what happens when you need to change it? | 2019-01-26T16:14:16.663400 | Hiroko | pythondev_help_Hiroko_2019-01-26T16:14:16.663400 | 1,548,519,256.6634 | 4,488 |
pythondev | help | I just edit the f-string | 2019-01-26T16:14:26.664000 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T16:14:26.664000 | 1,548,519,266.664 | 4,489 |
pythondev | help | Or you hand it off to someone else to update it | 2019-01-26T16:14:31.664500 | Hiroko | pythondev_help_Hiroko_2019-01-26T16:14:31.664500 | 1,548,519,271.6645 | 4,490 |
pythondev | help | Personally, I would not thank you for dumping that in my lap :grinning: | 2019-01-26T16:14:57.666200 | Hiroko | pythondev_help_Hiroko_2019-01-26T16:14:57.666200 | 1,548,519,297.6662 | 4,491 |
pythondev | help | look, you can use whatever tool you want for the job <@Coleen>. If you wanted to embed this whole f string in a perl script that's executed by a shell command, go for it | 2019-01-26T16:15:16.666900 | Jonas | pythondev_help_Jonas_2019-01-26T16:15:16.666900 | 1,548,519,316.6669 | 4,492 |
pythondev | help | hahah | 2019-01-26T16:15:24.667200 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T16:15:24.667200 | 1,548,519,324.6672 | 4,493 |
pythondev | help | but some tools are just not great. | 2019-01-26T16:15:27.667500 | Jonas | pythondev_help_Jonas_2019-01-26T16:15:27.667500 | 1,548,519,327.6675 | 4,494 |
pythondev | help | guys guys cmon | 2019-01-26T16:15:30.667700 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T16:15:30.667700 | 1,548,519,330.6677 | 4,495 |
pythondev | help | f-strings are not great for writing a template in. You're duplicating lines everywhere | 2019-01-26T16:15:44.668100 | Jonas | pythondev_help_Jonas_2019-01-26T16:15:44.668100 | 1,548,519,344.6681 | 4,496 |
pythondev | help | break your lines up into a list | 2019-01-26T16:15:49.668500 | Jonas | pythondev_help_Jonas_2019-01-26T16:15:49.668500 | 1,548,519,349.6685 | 4,497 |
pythondev | help | pass this list into a template, or a comprehension | 2019-01-26T16:15:56.668800 | Jonas | pythondev_help_Jonas_2019-01-26T16:15:56.668800 | 1,548,519,356.6688 | 4,498 |
pythondev | help | then you won't have the issue you have *right now* where you need to go through 40+ lines of f-strings copy-pasting whatever alignment hack you come up with | 2019-01-26T16:16:17.669400 | Jonas | pythondev_help_Jonas_2019-01-26T16:16:17.669400 | 1,548,519,377.6694 | 4,499 |
pythondev | help | But then I don't see it nicely written all together | 2019-01-26T16:16:25.669600 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T16:16:25.669600 | 1,548,519,385.6696 | 4,500 |
pythondev | help | So say I use a template, because I still want to have it all written out like this | 2019-01-26T16:17:13.670400 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T16:17:13.670400 | 1,548,519,433.6704 | 4,501 |
pythondev | help | Where would be the gain | 2019-01-26T16:17:22.670700 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T16:17:22.670700 | 1,548,519,442.6707 | 4,502 |
pythondev | help | No whitespaces at the begining? | 2019-01-26T16:17:33.671100 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T16:17:33.671100 | 1,548,519,453.6711 | 4,503 |
pythondev | help | Im not arguing, just want to understand | 2019-01-26T16:17:49.671400 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T16:17:49.671400 | 1,548,519,469.6714 | 4,504 |
pythondev | help | :slightly_smiling_face: | 2019-01-26T16:18:09.672000 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T16:18:09.672000 | 1,548,519,489.672 | 4,505 |
pythondev | help | right now, not much, because you've already sunk X time into doing it this way. The real gain would be personal, you can see the before and after, experience using the right tool for the job, and then you can personally compare the two solutions and come to your own understanding of what is better | 2019-01-26T16:18:39.673100 | Jonas | pythondev_help_Jonas_2019-01-26T16:18:39.673100 | 1,548,519,519.6731 | 4,506 |
pythondev | help | perhaps we are all wrong, but maybe, just perhaps not. | 2019-01-26T16:18:48.673500 | Jonas | pythondev_help_Jonas_2019-01-26T16:18:48.673500 | 1,548,519,528.6735 | 4,507 |
pythondev | help | im sure you're actually right | 2019-01-26T16:19:08.674100 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T16:19:08.674100 | 1,548,519,548.6741 | 4,508 |
pythondev | help | either way, the time we have spent discussing this, you could have done it | 2019-01-26T16:19:09.674300 | Jonas | pythondev_help_Jonas_2019-01-26T16:19:09.674300 | 1,548,519,549.6743 | 4,509 |
pythondev | help | For what it's worth, I'm on <@Coleen>’s side here. It's a pretty compact, obvious way to represent what he's trying to achieve. "Explicit is better than implicit." | 2019-01-26T16:19:10.674400 | Sasha | pythondev_help_Sasha_2019-01-26T16:19:10.674400 | 1,548,519,550.6744 | 4,510 |
pythondev | help | Using a template is just as explicit...? | 2019-01-26T16:20:09.675100 | Jonas | pythondev_help_Jonas_2019-01-26T16:20:09.675100 | 1,548,519,609.6751 | 4,511 |
pythondev | help | yes but introduces external dependency | 2019-01-26T16:20:46.675800 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T16:20:46.675800 | 1,548,519,646.6758 | 4,512 |
pythondev | help | It is essentially a template. I'm not sure what's gained by pulling in a library to do the same thing a built-in feature handles. | 2019-01-26T16:20:54.676000 | Sasha | pythondev_help_Sasha_2019-01-26T16:20:54.676000 | 1,548,519,654.676 | 4,513 |
pythondev | help | Would you make the same argument in a discussion about requests vs urllib? | 2019-01-26T16:21:19.676300 | Jonas | pythondev_help_Jonas_2019-01-26T16:21:19.676300 | 1,548,519,679.6763 | 4,514 |
pythondev | help | If not, what's the difference here? | 2019-01-26T16:21:45.676500 | Jonas | pythondev_help_Jonas_2019-01-26T16:21:45.676500 | 1,548,519,705.6765 | 4,515 |
pythondev | help | "experimental python 3 support", really? | 2019-01-26T16:22:52.677400 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T16:22:52.677400 | 1,548,519,772.6774 | 4,516 |
pythondev | help | just playing devils advocate. A list comprehension is a hell of a lot better than jinja, and better than essentially an unrolled one. | 2019-01-26T16:23:37.678300 | Jonas | pythondev_help_Jonas_2019-01-26T16:23:37.678300 | 1,548,519,817.6783 | 4,517 |
pythondev | help | But don't you need to unroll everything anyway to set up the input to the comprehension? You're not going to get away with less than one line per line. | 2019-01-26T16:24:40.678900 | Sasha | pythondev_help_Sasha_2019-01-26T16:24:40.678900 | 1,548,519,880.6789 | 4,518 |
pythondev | help | It's stable as hell in python 3, that section of the docs is really old. jinja 2.7 was released in *2013* | 2019-01-26T16:25:18.679100 | Jonas | pythondev_help_Jonas_2019-01-26T16:25:18.679100 | 1,548,519,918.6791 | 4,519 |
pythondev | help | ok, sounds good then :slightly_smiling_face: | 2019-01-26T16:27:52.679400 | Coleen | pythondev_help_Coleen_2019-01-26T16:27:52.679400 | 1,548,520,072.6794 | 4,520 |
Subsets and Splits
No community queries yet
The top public SQL queries from the community will appear here once available.